Go to Post The jags are powered with magic... - Aren Siekmeier [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > FIRST > General Forum
CD-Media   CD-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Reply
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 3 votes, 5.00 average. Display Modes
  #46   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 05-04-2010, 16:58
dodar's Avatar
dodar dodar is offline
Registered User
FRC #1592 (Bionic Tigers)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Rookie Year: 2007
Location: Cocoa, Florida
Posts: 2,928
dodar has a reputation beyond reputedodar has a reputation beyond reputedodar has a reputation beyond reputedodar has a reputation beyond reputedodar has a reputation beyond reputedodar has a reputation beyond reputedodar has a reputation beyond reputedodar has a reputation beyond reputedodar has a reputation beyond reputedodar has a reputation beyond reputedodar has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Robot Diversity

Pink(233) has been there many times but has never won on Einstein
__________________
1592(Student and Mentor) 2007-Present

Blue Banners: 2008 Colorado, 2012 Orlando, 2012 South Florida, 2014 Orlando, 2015 Buckeye

Mechanical Engineering - University of Central Florida(Class of 2016)
Reply With Quote
  #47   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 05-04-2010, 17:08
WJF2011's Avatar
WJF2011 WJF2011 is offline
Registered User
FRC #2415 (Wiredcats)
Team Role: Mechanical
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Rookie Year: 2008
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 44
WJF2011 has a spectacular aura aboutWJF2011 has a spectacular aura aboutWJF2011 has a spectacular aura about
Re: Robot Diversity

I did not mean fill up as in take all 12 spots, simply to take the majority.
__________________

2010 Peachtree Chairman's Award Winners
2009 Peachtree Regional Champions
2009 Palmetto Regional Champions
2008 Rookie Highest Seed and Rookie All-Star
Reply With Quote
  #48   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 05-04-2010, 21:22
AmoryG AmoryG is offline
Registered User
FRC #2423 (KwarQs)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Rookie Year: 2008
Location: Watertown, MA
Posts: 221
AmoryG has much to be proud ofAmoryG has much to be proud ofAmoryG has much to be proud ofAmoryG has much to be proud ofAmoryG has much to be proud ofAmoryG has much to be proud ofAmoryG has much to be proud ofAmoryG has much to be proud of
Re: Robot Diversity

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbeezy View Post
Bumpers may have made sense in '08 when teams were flying around at super high speeds, and maybe '09 before they realized teams wouldn't be moving very fast, but what part of this years game makes bumpers needed?
If you heard a couple members of my team from the Boston Regional, you might not say bumpers aren't needed. For the better part of the competition, I was one of the drivers. In one match, our robot was blocked as we were trying to go through the underpass. I couldn't get through, and at one point, someone started suggesting, "Kick them!", or something like that. I ignored that suggestion, both because I didn't like the idea for many reasons, and because it would have been a completely useless thing to do. However, if we did not have bumpers, and someone else was in control of our robot, our kicker could have dished out some serious damage to the other robot.
__________________
KwarQs 2423

2008 Boston Regional Rookie Allstars

http://whsrobot.blogspot.com/
Reply With Quote
  #49   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 05-04-2010, 21:34
,4lex S.'s Avatar
,4lex S. ,4lex S. is offline
University Mentor
AKA: Alex Strong
FRC #2702 (REBotics)
Team Role: College Student
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Rookie Year: 2004
Location: Waterloo, ON, Canada
Posts: 195
,4lex S. has much to be proud of,4lex S. has much to be proud of,4lex S. has much to be proud of,4lex S. has much to be proud of,4lex S. has much to be proud of,4lex S. has much to be proud of,4lex S. has much to be proud of,4lex S. has much to be proud of,4lex S. has much to be proud of
Re: Robot Diversity

Ocassionally this is a matter of perception. I remember walking into FRC in 2006 and seeing massive diversity, as my understanding was limited and my horizons defined by what I saw at competition. When you have never seen a roller claw or swerve drive before, the competition can easily look incredibly diverse, even from a distance.

I personally don't remember a major amount of robot diversity after 2007, but I think it was more that I became used to the FRC norm.
__________________
University of Waterloo Mechanical Engineering Class of 2014- 2B School Term
University of Waterloo Formula SAE Race Team 2010-Eternity
FRC 2702: REBotics 2011 Mentor ::: FRC 1006: Fast Eddie Robotics 2005-2009 Alumni ::: FLL 4050: 2004 Alumni

Reply With Quote
  #50   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 05-04-2010, 21:35
AmoryG AmoryG is offline
Registered User
FRC #2423 (KwarQs)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Rookie Year: 2008
Location: Watertown, MA
Posts: 221
AmoryG has much to be proud ofAmoryG has much to be proud ofAmoryG has much to be proud ofAmoryG has much to be proud ofAmoryG has much to be proud ofAmoryG has much to be proud ofAmoryG has much to be proud ofAmoryG has much to be proud of
Re: Robot Diversity

Quote:
Originally Posted by WJF2011 View Post
I did not mean fill up as in take all 12 spots, simply to take the majority.
Not necessarily. Last year, 67, 111, 177, and 217 were very familiar with Einstein, but 68, 121, 222, 247, 971, 1218, 1507, and 2753 were not.
__________________
KwarQs 2423

2008 Boston Regional Rookie Allstars

http://whsrobot.blogspot.com/
Reply With Quote
  #51   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 05-04-2010, 22:03
CallieJ's Avatar
CallieJ CallieJ is offline
The Girl With the Spirit Tattoos
FRC #1868 (Space Cookies)
Team Role: Scout
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Rookie Year: 2008
Location: Palo Alto
Posts: 53
CallieJ is a splendid one to beholdCallieJ is a splendid one to beholdCallieJ is a splendid one to beholdCallieJ is a splendid one to beholdCallieJ is a splendid one to beholdCallieJ is a splendid one to beholdCallieJ is a splendid one to beholdCallieJ is a splendid one to behold
Re: Robot Diversity

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbeezy View Post
'10- imo the least diverse, and from an onlookers standpoint it makes teams difficult to pick out (unless they hang that is) when they have the same bumpers and change between red/blue.
This is a little off topic, but personally I really liked the bumper requirements for this year. They did make the game a little less entertaining (no tie-dye bumpers or bumpers with little monkeys on them) but from an onlooker's perspective I think it made it easier to see the scope of the game. The little flags are really hard to pick out when you're trying to scout an alliance, and the bumpers make my job a lot easier. Especially if teams follow the recommendation of at least 2" tall team numbers on every side.
__________________

2009,10,11 Silicon Valley Regional Finalists
2011 Silicon Valley Regional Chairman's Winners
2011 Sacramento Regional Champions
2011 Sacramento Regional Engineering Inspiration Award
2009 Silicon Valley Regional Engineering Inspiration Award
2006 Championships Judge's Award

www.spacecookies.org
Reply With Quote
  #52   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 06-04-2010, 00:16
Wayne TenBrink's Avatar
Wayne TenBrink Wayne TenBrink is offline
<< (2008 Game Piece)
FRC #1918 (NC Gears)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Fremont, MI, USA
Posts: 528
Wayne TenBrink has a reputation beyond reputeWayne TenBrink has a reputation beyond reputeWayne TenBrink has a reputation beyond reputeWayne TenBrink has a reputation beyond reputeWayne TenBrink has a reputation beyond reputeWayne TenBrink has a reputation beyond reputeWayne TenBrink has a reputation beyond reputeWayne TenBrink has a reputation beyond reputeWayne TenBrink has a reputation beyond reputeWayne TenBrink has a reputation beyond reputeWayne TenBrink has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Robot Diversity

The GDC has a lot of tough jobs, and deciding how to value the different means of scoring is one of them. If teams decide that the points earned aren't worth the cost (time, weight, risk, opportunity, etc.) then they won't do it and design diversity will suffer.

I don't know if the GDC has a goal in mind, but the end game usually seems to be worth 20% to 30% of the match total. With Breakaway, it seems that they anticipated low scoring matches when they assigned only two points for hanging. We built a hanger, but it really stunk. We determined that we were better off trying to kick goals in the last 20 seconds and we took it off. Had it been worth more points, we would have tried to make it work.

The diversity of the designs is affected by the risk/reward equation.
__________________
NC Gears (Newaygo County Geeks Engineering Awesome Robotic Solutions)

FRC 1918 (Competing at St. Joseph and West MI in 2017)
FTC 6043 & 7911
Reply With Quote
  #53   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 06-04-2010, 00:24
MagiChau's Avatar
MagiChau MagiChau is offline
Registered User
AKA: Michael Chau
FRC #0085 (B.O.B. (Built on Brains))
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Rookie Year: 2010
Location: Zeeland, Michigan
Posts: 875
MagiChau is just really niceMagiChau is just really niceMagiChau is just really niceMagiChau is just really nice
Re: Robot Diversity

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne TenBrink View Post
I don't know if the GDC has a goal in mind, but the end game usually seems to be worth 20% to 30% of the match total. With Breakaway, it seems that they anticipated low scoring matches when they assigned only two points for hanging. We built a hanger, but it really stunk. We determined that we were better off trying to kick goals in the last 20 seconds and we took it off. Had it been worth more points, we would have tried to make it work.

The diversity of the designs is affected by the risk/reward equation.
Well your focus on scoring goals helped you guys win at Traverse City and State Competition Hanging points determined a number of matches for the alliances that could not outscore their opponents. For instance in State Competition because Team 67 (HOT) hanged it caused them to manage a tie the first round of the finals. In the 3rd round of the finals if they had a more reliable hanging mechanism they could have tied again to extend the game even further. If the team can't dominate the other alliance with scores for whatever reason then the extra hanging points helps.

Just my 2 cents on the value of arm as a robot design.

Last edited by MagiChau : 06-04-2010 at 00:27.
Reply With Quote
  #54   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 06-04-2010, 00:30
santosh's Avatar
santosh santosh is offline
Registered User
AKA: 2415
FRC #2415
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Rookie Year: 2004
Location: The world
Posts: 796
santosh has a reputation beyond reputesantosh has a reputation beyond reputesantosh has a reputation beyond reputesantosh has a reputation beyond reputesantosh has a reputation beyond reputesantosh has a reputation beyond reputesantosh has a reputation beyond reputesantosh has a reputation beyond reputesantosh has a reputation beyond reputesantosh has a reputation beyond reputesantosh has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to santosh
Re: Robot Diversity

In my opinion, this game allows for rookie teams, less experienced teams, and less endowed teams to excel easily. This game levels the playing field a bit allowing all to play. However, I do agree that parts of it limit the amount of creativity that can go into the game.
This is why I will always love the 2003 game Raising the bar.
It allowed for these aforementioned teams to do simple things such as play defense and herd balls while at the same time presenting the 2 other very complex issues (handling a ginormous ball/ climbing steps and hanging from a 10 foot tall bar) that allowed for very creative designs.

Since the game with the tetrahedrals, there has only been 1 game piece to deal with. (Tetrahedral, ball, tube, ball, ball, ball). There have been multiple ways to use these items and various other driving challenges but none really that drove people to think like they did in Raising the Bar.
That is just my opinion. And well... I like robots
Reply With Quote
  #55   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 06-04-2010, 04:01
Nigel's Avatar
Nigel Nigel is offline
Fuher Glitterpaint
AKA: that's the nickname I got for sarcasm
FRC #3136 (Official Robot Constructors of America (ORCA))
Team Role: Programmer
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Rookie Year: 2010
Location: Ashland
Posts: 43
Nigel is a name known to allNigel is a name known to allNigel is a name known to allNigel is a name known to allNigel is a name known to allNigel is a name known to all
Re: Robot Diversity

it seems to me that people who are wanting more "diversity" want less teamwork... they say that previous years there was more to do so yay more diversity, but from my admittedly limited experience with FIRST this year's game does the most to make the word Alliance mean something... you can't just go off on your own and yknow do 100000 laps in autonomous and win if your your alliance no matter what, just kinda doin your own thing... last year, same deal, each bot basically had no reason to interact with their alliance mates etc... this year you HAVE to work together and alliance selections span the entirety of the rankings as bots specialize into offense, midfield, and defense... basically yes there might be less "diversity" but I think it's better this way because even a "god bot" like 469 is useless without good teammates to help them, whereas in past years out of the box designs could easily win entire years by themselves.

Summary: Mayhaps less diversity, but definitely more teamwork among alliance mates, I think this is a good direction to go with the games by the GDC.
__________________


2010 VA regional: Highest seeded rookie~3rd
2010 VA regional: Judges award
Reply With Quote
  #56   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 06-04-2010, 10:53
Radical Pi Radical Pi is offline
Putting the Jumper in the Bumper
AKA: Ian Thompson
FRC #0639 (Code Red Robotics)
Team Role: Programmer
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Rookie Year: 2010
Location: New York
Posts: 655
Radical Pi has a spectacular aura aboutRadical Pi has a spectacular aura aboutRadical Pi has a spectacular aura about
Re: Robot Diversity

Totally agree with the above poster. Even though this is my rookie year, from offseason competitions I can definitely say the amount of teamwork in Lunacy is nothing compared to Breakaway. From my time on the field in Lunacy, the only level of teamwork I remember is "pin that guy while we dump balls in his trailer". I absolutely love how this year it takes all 3 robots working together to win a match.
__________________

"To have no errors would be life without meaning. No strugle, no joy"
"A network is only as strong as it's weakest linksys"
Reply With Quote
  #57   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 06-04-2010, 12:31
PingPongPerson's Avatar
PingPongPerson PingPongPerson is offline
Hardcore Robot Addict
AKA: Michael Groom
FRC #0955 (CV Robotics)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Rookie Year: 2008
Location: Corvallis, OR
Posts: 69
PingPongPerson will become famous soon enough
Re: Robot Diversity

I think that one of the major problems with this years game is the fact that the robots are encouraged to go under the tunnel. This has caused almost all teams to build a short, box type robot. It made the game very uninteresting, and there were no radical designs that I saw .
__________________

Team 955
Raiderbot
Reply With Quote
  #58   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 06-04-2010, 12:44
kenavt's Avatar
kenavt kenavt is offline
Registered User
AKA: Colin S
no team
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Rookie Year: 2010
Location: Ann Arbor
Posts: 253
kenavt has a reputation beyond reputekenavt has a reputation beyond reputekenavt has a reputation beyond reputekenavt has a reputation beyond reputekenavt has a reputation beyond reputekenavt has a reputation beyond reputekenavt has a reputation beyond reputekenavt has a reputation beyond reputekenavt has a reputation beyond reputekenavt has a reputation beyond reputekenavt has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Robot Diversity

I have to agree with Nigel... the fact that there are a few different types of robots (not a lot) that mesh together to encourage teamwork. For example, a great teammate for our team to co-ordinate with (with our focus on middle-zone play and ball deflector) would be an excellent far zone scorer like 2771 or 910 at MSC.

In alliance selection, you have to go out to find who compliments your team the best, rather than who is the best at the game, period. It allows for in-depth strategy and teamwork, which I think is FTW.
__________________
University of Michigan Computer Engineering '17

FRC 2337 student alumni (2010-2013)
Reply With Quote
  #59   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 08-04-2010, 21:23
Lee Reid 3136's Avatar
Lee Reid 3136 Lee Reid 3136 is offline
Part time Zombie
AKA: Captain America
FRC #3136 (Official Robot Constructors of America (ORCA))
Team Role: Human Player
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Rookie Year: 2010
Location: Bumpass
Posts: 148
Lee Reid 3136 is a glorious beacon of lightLee Reid 3136 is a glorious beacon of lightLee Reid 3136 is a glorious beacon of lightLee Reid 3136 is a glorious beacon of lightLee Reid 3136 is a glorious beacon of light
Re: Robot Diversity

Quote:
Originally Posted by CallieJ View Post
I really liked the bumper requirements for this year. They did make the game a little less entertaining (no tie-dye bumpers or bumpers with little monkeys on them) but from an onlooker's perspective I think it made it easier to see the scope of the game. The little flags are really hard to pick out when you're trying to scout an alliance, and the bumpers make my job a lot easier.
I agree. I love how easy the bumpers make it to differentiate the alliance. I've watch some of the videos of Overdrive on The Blue Alliance and it basically impossible to tell who is on who's team unless they're controlling one of the balls.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nigel
it seems to me that people who are wanting more "diversity" want less teamwork... they say that previous years there was more to do so yay more diversity, but from my admittedly limited experience with FIRST this year's game does the most to make the word Alliance mean something
I agree with Nigel. Breakaway seems to be a much more team oriented game then in years past. In some ways, Breakaway does encourage robots to be less diverse, to do one thing well and then choice teammates who can do things you can't.

Also what does diversity even mean?(In this scenario, I know what it means normally) I mean your taking a whole bunch of people from all across the world, giving them a challenge, and saying "go." Every team is going to approach the challenge a different way and unless the teams are working together (and even then it's iffy) there is never going to be two identical robots. How is that not diverse? More or less diverse, that's just nitpicking. Robots are robots and robots are cool, no matter how many bells and whistles, or kickers and climbers it has.
__________________

2010 VA regional: Highest seeded rookie~3rd
2010 VA regional: Judges award
Thinks to remember: 1)Ethernet cable goes in cRio port #1 2)Cloth goes all the way around bumpers 3) Don't let Ed use the good miter box, because he will make it the bad miter box 4) Don't let Joseph use the hand drill 5) Don't let Jesse play soccer inside 6) Ed is the campion 7) We don't go full speed over the bump 8) I need to grow a beard so I can stroke it thoughtfully.
Reply With Quote
  #60   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 10-04-2010, 23:14
mwtidd's Avatar
mwtidd mwtidd is offline
Registered User
AKA: mike
FRC #0319 (Big Bad Bob)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Rookie Year: 2003
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 714
mwtidd has a reputation beyond reputemwtidd has a reputation beyond reputemwtidd has a reputation beyond reputemwtidd has a reputation beyond reputemwtidd has a reputation beyond reputemwtidd has a reputation beyond reputemwtidd has a reputation beyond reputemwtidd has a reputation beyond reputemwtidd has a reputation beyond reputemwtidd has a reputation beyond reputemwtidd has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Robot Diversity

04 is still my favorite game...

the diversity of the robots was phenomenal in this game

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...8922126654120#

2v2 also created a "do everything" dynamic so you saw very interesting robots.
__________________
"Never let your schooling interfere with your education" -Mark Twain
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Ethnic and Gender diversity in FIRST anonymousrobot General Forum 32 05-03-2016 22:54
Robot-to-robot and robot-to-trailer GaryVoshol Rules/Strategy 11 06-01-2009 19:18
[OCCRA]: on the diversity tournament DCCmember1 OCCRA 4 24-11-2008 17:30


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 17:01.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi