Conflict with Mentor

[Kimmeh]

I've waited a while before posting this to allow myself some time to focus my thoughts as well as to distance myself from the situation. Some background information: This is my team's 3rd year, I'm a senior, and this is my second year on the team.

On many small teams, the Chairman's essay often becomes the task of a few individuals and that is no exception on my team. Since I've been on the team, that task has fallen to me. As I enjoy writing and working on the awards, it's not a big issue, especially when only a few students were interested in that aspect of the award. Regardless, the award has, more or less, become my project.

On the Wednesday before our first competition, one of our mentors, arrived at the shop (our build site) at about 8pm to pick students to work on the Chairman's display at his house. (Yes, it should have been done much earlier, but that's neither here nor there.) I asked him if he would bring me back to the shop once we were done. He said no, but he would take me home. I told him that I didn't want to go then, I'd rather finish the kicker for the robot. He then told me that if I didn't go, I wouldn't be able to present. I finally agreed to go after another mentor volunteered to pick me back up once I was done working on Chairman's. So I went.

The group of us arrived at his house. There, I discover there is someone else interested in joining the team and could be one of the people presenting. The meeting was largely unproductive as many of the students couldn't focus, however, we did manage to get the presentation outlined. At this point, it was already 10pm, and many students were about to be taken home. I called the mentor who offered to pick me up and returned to the shop to work on that blasted kicker. (We had some...issues with it.)

So, on Friday morning, I discover I'm not presenting. One of the presenters was the new person I mentioned. She has never shown up at a meeting, knows very little about the team, or what we've done, and, hasn't shown up since. In fact, she wasn't at the second day of competition either.

So now, the members of Chief Delphi, what would be the best way to go about confronting the mentor in question? I feel that I should have been entitled to be one of the presenters. Not only is it my last year on the team, but I spent hours working on the award, when my time and energy could have been greatly used by other parts of my team.

Please note, I'm not asking for criticism on our Chairman's “process” as I know it needs a LOT of work and better time management. I'm asking for the best way to professionally address this issue.

Thank you,
Kimberly

[ErikEdhlund]

One of my suggestions would be to talk to the mentor about letting you assist the new team member. Since you know more about your robot and the team. If it still becomes a issue I would say ask another mentor to talk with them so that you may get a good understanding as to why you were not chosen to present over a new student.

[Swan217]

I'm going to preempt the next few posts that people are thinking about writing:

"Don't air your dirty laundry"

"It's unprofessional to post publicly about such things and it embarrasses your team"

There, now that we got the concern trolling out of the way...

Most teams have an "executive committee" or at least a lead mentor/team leader to talk to and resolve such issues. I suggest going to them to resolve this conflict. One thing you may want to avoid is saying that you're entitled to present, no matter how much you worked on it. I'd stick with graciously arguing your ability to communicate the team's strengths to the judges. Maybe give an outline of how you were planning on presenting the information. But for pete's sake, do not argue how much you deserve or are entitled to give the presentation.

Barring that, or if the mentor in question is the lead mentor, then maybe you have to acknowledge the fact that even though you may be right, it's not worth fighting over and just let it go. Senior year is way too much fun to waste on worrying about a Chairmans presentation, which seems important now, but in a few years, you realize that it's just small change.

[johnr]

These type of issues belong here- http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/fo...play.php?f=124 Is it to late to move it?

[HashemReza]

The easiest way that I see (from a student's perspective) to deal with the situation would be suggesting a student power structure.

Simply put, it's going to be difficult for you to make any kind of power changes during the season. Putting a simple structure in for your team to create a hierarchy can make everything more organized, not just chairman's. Furthermore, it will empower students to fill those positions, and really give each person a specific purpose and title (which everyone seems to like ).

I know that, for our team, the decisions for who presents Chairman's and what is said is almost completely student-controlled. Our Director of Public Relations is in charge of making those decisions, and final decisions are run by the mentor and explained to show a logical thought process behind it.

Frankly, if you begin to make your team run more like a business then people become accountable, and if people are accountable then logic will take precedence over preference. I know that our team would never have allowed someone who hadn't even been to a meeting present our Chairman's award, it is simply illogical to hope that the person will be able to absorb everything they need to in such a short period.

In short, by adding more structure to your team, it will take away some of the unnecessary stress from your mentor, as well as empower the students to stand up for their opinions. While it's not foolproof, it's a good step forward for any team.

If you're looking for a less...formal approach, let me be the first to say that conflict solves nothing, unless it is done with care and tact. Realize that even though this mentor may have made a decision you disagree with, this person has made the effort to mentor your team, and still deserves your respect.

[JesseK]

These sound like the types of conflicts that occur between professional engineers and Program Managers. In all honesty, the mentorship may have made a decision based upon information that you didn't know, or more probably they made a decision based upon information you simply do not like. The info could have ranged from everything dealing with the lack of time management to how well she spoke under pressure. It's not really worth conjecture though.

The only thing you're 'entitled' to is an explanation, but only if you're not confronting in your approach to the mentor(s) who made the decision. Past that, it's not really worth it in your last year of high school. If you're going to Atlanta then enjoy the Championships; if not then enjoy the rest of the school year. Either way, regardless of whether it was a weighted decision, impulsive decision, success or mistake the only thing you can really do is get over it and move on.

The only reason you would want an explanation is so that you do not make the same mistake again in the future.

[thefro526]

I applaud the way this post was written, I like how you made sure to not mention anyone by name and kept the specifics to a minimum.

Onto the subject of the post though, I've had my own problems with team leadership and addressing problems with a mentor is not an easy thing to do. I'd suggest sitting down with the mentor in question with at least one other Adult present and discussing your issues. Stay very polite and very impartial and you should get the answer you're looking for, but it may not be what you want to hear.

Good luck.

[the programmer]

I think something important to remember is that mentors put a lot of time into this and that he probably thought that it was the best thing for him to do. Another thing is that having mentored FLL, I know how hard mentoing can be and I think that you need to realize that mentors have to walk a very fine line between teaching and guiding. So please keep in mind if you talk to that mentor that his job is very hard and that he only had everyone's best interest at heart also, remember that sometimes the student can become the teacher which I think is the best thing that could happen now.

[Jon Stratis]

As a senior, there's not much they can do to appease you other than apologize at this point. However, there is a lot you can do to help move your team forward still.

One of the most important things you can do is work to create a team handbook. You would need input from all members of the team and from the mentors. The most important thing you can put in it is the roles and responsibilities of everyone on the team. This won't be a simple weekend project - it'll takes weeks of revisions, drafts, and meetings to get it just right for your team.

Two years ago, two of our graduating seniors started a handbook like that. It's evolved since that initial draft, but it does help make clear where the responsibilities on the team are.

What type of team do you (and by you, i mean the entire team, not just the single individual posting here) want to have? How much responsibility do you want the students to have? How much involvement do you want the mentors to have (ranging between the extremes of the mentors design and build everything, to the mentors have their hands tied behind their back every time they enter the shop)? What is the leadership structure like? What is the team structure like (for example, are there clearly differentiated subteams covering specific areas?)?


However with the season quickly approaching the end (or already there, if you aren't going to championships), this is a great time to do a retrospective. We typically do two at the end of each year - one with just the mentors present, and another with the entire team. Focus on both the good and the bad. What went well this year? What didn't go so well? From this, you can develop a list of action items, things that need to be done for next year (or over the summer). To give you an example, here are a few items we have on the list to talk about at the mentor meeting in a few weeks:
Good:
- Intense strategy discussions on kickoff weekend, Mon/Tue had great impact on design drive through build season
- tough boxes work well - easy solution for the encoder mounting - can be cut down for a single CIM motor for more clearance

Not so good:
- Chain tensioners - they worked OK, but need better access / possilby different mechanism.
- Need more rigorous design reviews to quickly identify potential problems

Action items (made up on the spot here):
- Jimbo will work with students Jon and Jane to develop the chain tensioner concept over the summer to better be able to handle this during the build season
- During the build season, there will be a weekly mentor+team leaders design review every Sat. afternoon. Plan 30 min per component.

The key to a retrospective is to avoid blaming, avoid putting down any ideas, avoid direct criticism of anybody. Everyone needs to go in with an open mind and with the goal of making things better for the team next year. To help with that, I've been in groups where a pot was put in the middle at the beginning, and ever time someone criticized or put down someone else they had to put $1 in the pot. Then at the end of the day, we used the pot for dinner (plus a little more from the manager when the pot was too small).

[HashemReza]

Originally Posted by eagle33199

One of the most important things you can do is work to create a team handbook. You would need input from all members of the team and from the mentors. The most important thing you can put in it is the roles and responsibilities of everyone on the team.

Exactly. We have one of those that we've been accumulating for about 4 years now, and I can tell you, it's been completely invaluable to our successes.

[EricH]

I do see an issue here.

It's not that the student was replaced. That's a mentor's call.

It's who the student was replaced with.

One of the presenters was the new person I mentioned. She has never shown up at a meeting, knows very little about the team, or what we've done, and, hasn't shown up since. In fact, she wasn't at the second day of competition either.

Somebody who shows up at exactly one breakout meeting and and one day of an event, and isn't part of the team before then should not be treated as a member of the team for the presentation. This is made worse when said person, who knows little to nothing about the team, replaces one of the persons who wrote the RCA essay, who knows more and can expand on the presentation if asked.

I also see that a mentor is having an offsite activity for students who want to present the RCA. I don't see a problem with that. I think that's a good thing, actually. I also don't see that there's a problem with saying that if you aren't there, you can't present (unless extenuating circumstances are not accounted for).

Where I do see an issue is the refusal of reverse transportation, and then saying, "If you're not there, you can't present." In this case, that was worked around quite well. I'd suggest making the latter statement first.

I also see the timing as an issue. 2 days after this happens, the morning of the presentation, is when the announcement is made. Bad call. If the mentor was going to pull the OP off the presenters, it should have been done at least the day before, if at all possible.

What I would suggest: Talk to another mentor or two about this. Explain how you felt, etc. Then ask them to come with you to talk to (not confront) the mentor who was in charge of the RCA submission. Find out what his reasons were, and let the mentors explain why it's a bad idea to do that if they feel that it is necessary to do so. (Note: it may be a good idea to have a mentor--preferably the lead mentor--who hasn't heard either side to moderate if needed.)

In addition to the structure suggestions above, of course. Maybe set a ground rule that any student who wants to do certain tasks (drive, present, pit crew, you get the picture) has to have been at [a reasonable minimum number of] meetings in order to be considered, barring extenuating circumstances. Having that alone in the team handbook could save a lot of frustration in the future.

[sanddrag]

Makes me remember this spotlight quote:

Originally Posted by Madison

While one student may not be of much value to the team, do we ever stop to think about how much value the team may be to that student?

Perhaps that is what is happening here.

[Kimmeh]

The mentor is our lead mentor, which is where part of the problem is. Due to work, he has made very few meetings which I don't hold against him, as work does come first. However, this has made it very hard for him to lead the team as we have gone up to two weeks without hearing from him.

A different mentor (teacher/coach) worked with the awards team throughout the year, both before and during build season. He is also the "middle-man" between students and mentors. He was the first person I went to, to have this resolved. While I don't remember specifics of the conversation, I remember feeling like the issue was dismissed with a comment along the lines of "these things happen." Granted, they do, and I would be less frustrated if it was handled differently.

I agree that I'm not entitled to present, and I should have worded that differently. However, it is highly frustrating, and I would like an explanation. The change was made last minute, without any discussion with the rest of the team. None of the mentors even knew until after the presentation. Also, I wasn't told I wouldn't be presenting by the mentor, which is where a large part of my frustration comes from. I was in the pits of the rookie team we mentor, when I received a text from one of the presenters saying responding that she couldn't come help me as she was about to go present. In other words, I was "told" I wasn't presenting, by not being told at all.

It's been hard for our team to get a general consensus on anything like a handbook, which is something I'd love to have. We're a "young" team - out of 14 students, we have 1 sophomore, and 3 seniors, the rest of the team are either freshmen or 8th graders, with 3 of them younger than that. In addition, for over half of them, this is their rookie year. Now, more than ever, I'm going to push for the team to commit to this so that something like this cannot happen again.

I appreciate everyone's input, and I am trying to approach this as tactfully and professionally as possible. I wanted to avoid an impulsive discussion where I might say things that are impulsive or inappropriate and would cause problems rather than resolve them, hence waiting.

Thank you.

And for those wondering, I chose to post it here over FAHA because here, I am more accountable to what is being said, and I won't be tempted to say things that perhaps shouldn't be said.

[JGecko146]

As a mentor (I was also a student on a team many years ago), I will agree that our job is very difficult and we sometimes have to make the unpopular decisions. However, I personally favor commitment to the team, dedication to the program and a willingness to learn above almost everything else. I understand your frustration in having someone chosen to present who seems to have (I don’t know the situation) put in far less effort than you. I feel that you have to earn positions on the team, i.e. presenter, driver, human player, captain, etc. You do this through hard work and dedication.

I would suggest the following. Speak to another mentor on the team, someone you feel comfortable with. Leave your ego at the door and don’t use words like entitled. Instead talk about how it made you feel (I know, insert corny psychiatrist jokes here) and how can all of you work on the team to ensure future success. I really like team handbooks. Having everything in black and white makes things a lot easier. I do have to caution you that just because you did not see this other person much doesn’t mean they didn’t help the team. We had two students last who did the whole animation on their own and we didn’t see them until the end.

Lastly, I know this was a hard blow. But please don’t let this one negative experience cloud your whole FIRST experience. In any team environment there may be problems or even hurt feelings. When you look back in a year or two, don’t focus on this moment but rather the awesome experience of being on a FIRST team and your happy memories of it.

Best of luck,
JGecko146

[EricH]

Ah, the old lack of communication...

I think that if you talk to the other mentors and explain that 1) the student replacing you was not part of the team until the meeting where the presentation was worked on and 2) there was a severe communication breakdown where you weren't told that you weren't presenting, until someone said that they were presenting, you might get one or two that are willing to go in and have a sit-down meeting with the mentor in question.

What you want to know is: 1) Why were you not informed? 2) Why was the change made? In that order, might I add. Also use that meeting to get mentors to support the adoption of a team handbook, written by the team in the time left this year.

The lack of communication is the #1 worst problem a team can have. (Trust me, I've been on a team that had a major communications breakdown. It wasn't pretty.) When you do a handbook (and I'd recommend using your senior status to your advantage here, to get one done), you'll want to address communication guidelines--official channels, timeliness, emergency, etc.--as well as general team rules on meetings, participation, and all the other stuff that you'll find in the various handbooks posted on CD or on the FIRST site.