Curie 2010!

[fuzzwaz]

Hmm.. So lets say someone besides 2 certain teams get the first alliance. Who do you choose? 469? 1114 And why??

[DonRotolo]

Originally Posted by fuzzwaz

Hmm.. So lets say someone besides 2 certain teams get the first alliance. Who do you choose? 469? 1114 And why??

1114, because they are more versatile.

[Tarzan19]

Im really glad to see some other GRKC Regional teams that are going to be in Curie. Good luck to 1986, 1764, and 2410 and everyone else in the Curie division. This is going to be an awesome first time in the CMP.

[haye321]

I spoke with one of my team's coaches today about this very issue. 469 has a massive target on the back of their heads...EVERYONE is planning how to shut them down. We have seen that they can be stopped, it is possible...and I don't think that 1114 is going to choose a team that EVERY TEAM IN THE WORLD is thinking about how to beat. Personally I'm hoping to give 1114 a run for their money when it comes to 1st seed but regardless I don't think they're gong to pick 469. I think 1114 is the team to look out for, they're the ones you need to worry about how to beat. I'm predicting that 469 does not make it to Einstein...but hey who knows...

[Jeffy]

Originally Posted by Tarzan19

Im really glad to see some other GRKC Regional teams that are going to be in Curie. Good luck to 1986, 1764, and 2410 and everyone else in the Curie division. This is going to be an awesome first time in the CMP.

Don't forget about 931!

Excited to see you guys in our division! I hope pits are in order of team number like they were the last time I was at championships. I never got to see the inner workings of your teams outstanding robot and would really like to know what makes this thing tick.

[Racer26]

Originally Posted by fuzzwaz

Hmm.. So lets say someone besides 2 certain teams get the first alliance. Who do you choose? 469? 1114 And why??

Depends on who I am. If I'm an excellent scorer (like 1114, 217, 148, etc), then 469. If I'm anyone else, 1114. IF either declines, I pick the other. If both decline, I've successfully prevented them from picking each other.

Also, if 1114 seeds #1, I do expect them to pick 469, unless 469 breaks or something. 469's ball recycle-ability is of extreme value to a top notch scorer like 1114, even if some of the balls get defended. The fact remains that defense alone cannot win a match, you have to score points somehow. If all of your resources are tied up stopping 469 from doing their thing, you're not scoring balls.

[Josh Fox]

Team RUSH is excited about many things for Atlanta, one of which is the chance we'll have the coveted corner pit since we're the lowest number in our division!

[Cory]

Originally Posted by haye321

I spoke with one of my team's coaches today about this very issue. 469 has a massive target on the back of their heads...EVERYONE is planning how to shut them down. We have seen that they can be stopped, it is possible...and I don't think that 1114 is going to choose a team that EVERY TEAM IN THE WORLD is thinking about how to beat. Personally I'm hoping to give 1114 a run for their money when it comes to 1st seed but regardless I don't think they're gong to pick 469. I think 1114 is the team to look out for, they're the ones you need to worry about how to beat. I'm predicting that 469 does not make it to Einstein...but hey who knows...

I would bet a whole lot of money that if 1114 is #1 they're picking 469. It would simply be stupid not to.

217 and 67 couldn't beat 469 when 469 had 1918. How would two lesser robots beat 469 when they have 1114?

[waialua359]

Originally Posted by Cory

I would bet a whole lot of money that if 1114 is #1 they're picking 469. It would simply be stupid not to.

217 and 67 couldn't beat 469 when 469 had 1918. How would two lesser robots beat 469 when they have 1114?

absolutely true.
As others have mentioned, if you have the #1 pick and pretty good at scoring, fire the scouting team if they dont tell you to pick 469.

[The Lucas]

Originally Posted by haye321

I spoke with one of my team's coaches today about this very issue. 469 has a massive target on the back of their heads...EVERYONE is planning how to shut them down.

They do have a massive target on their backs. I expect this to be a significant hurdle to seeding #1. I expect their qualifiers to be very rough because teams will approach the match as a chance to try out their defense against them (maybe impress some teams) instead of just increase their own seeding points, thus lower seeding points for the winner (which will be 469 most of the time). 469 also doesnt generate many cooperation points since they cant score for their opponents as effectively as themselves.

However, 1114 shouldn't have this issue. They are a conventional style bot so no unconventional defense to try (probably will get some 6v0 though). They can and will score for their opponents to up their seeding points. As long as they avoid the red cards they are the favorite to seed #1 IMHO.

Originally Posted by haye321

We have seen that they can be stopped, it is possible...and I don't think that 1114 is going to choose a team that EVERY TEAM IN THE WORLD is thinking about how to beat. Personally I'm hoping to give 1114 a run for their money when it comes to 1st seed but regardless I don't think they're gong to pick 469. I think 1114 is the team to look out for, they're the ones you need to worry about how to beat. I'm predicting that 469 does not make it to Einstein...but hey who knows...

1114 & 469 together would be a heavy favorite to win their division in 6 matches. Why would either not want this alliance to form? Everyone is gunning for 469 but who really has a shot to beat them on a good elim alliance? Maybe 1114 and a few others, but why would 1114 take that risk? 1114 will pick 469 and visa versa if given a chance and they will be nearly unbeatable. Now if someone else seeds #1 (always a distinct possibility at CMP with the possibility of tough qual matches) this division will get real interesting.

[Travis Hoffman]

48 will exist in Curie and expects with some simple upgrades to bring a more capable robot to the field than it has previously this season.

If we were tossing the spirit of competition out the window, the only X v Y strategy against 1114 and 469 that has a high probablility of keeping either team from #1 seed during qualifying is 84v2. A full out assault from all the relative peasants and lesser nobles on the castle where the King and Queen of Curie reside. Total lockdown of all four goals by opponents and partners in any match 1114 and/or 469 is in. 1114 is especially dangerous even by themselves and would weather most any form of traditional countermeasures to keep their scores low. They've faced strong resistance from other solid robots and still managed to win the seeding battle every time.

In the case of total, absolute collusion, however, 1114/469 (and the unfortunate spectators who must watch these borefests) bear the full brunt of the low seed scores from such debacles, while the rest of the field bears only a fraction of it...unless the Algorithm of Death were still around, but I digress.

Since that situation will never bear itself out in a FIRST competition setting, it will be exceedingly difficult to dethrone these two, save for the influence of fate/luck/karma/divine intervention, for I feel the lion's share of preparation and execution lies with these two teams. They've both done an excellent job of building up their castle walls such that even the best armies of the Curie kingdom would be hard-pressed to breach them.

[/figurative language overload]

[DonRotolo]

Originally Posted by Travis Hoffman

the only X v Y strategy against 1114 and 469 that has a high probablility of keeping either team from #1 seed during qualifying is 84v2.

[/figurative language overload]

Ah, yes, you CAN have too much figurative language. Thanks Travis

So what's with Curie's obsession to prevent these teams from being #1 seed? Wouldn't you prefer to be something like 1st pick from the #1 seed?

Experienced teams know this, but #1 and #2 seeds rarely ally together. Not because they each think they can win it all 'on their own', but because they have robots that do not complement each other for that year's game.

OK, a concrete example: If you have three "front pusher bits", will that win you much? No, but an alliance with a front pusher bot, a mid kicker bot who hangs, and a defense bot who kicks across 2 zones and is fast - well, those three complement each other.

469 is too easy to defend against, once you've seen them. Oh, don't misunderstand: They are very good, and they will do well. But they don't move, and they need a second robot in their offensive zone to defend against the defender. So on the other side of the field, it's 2 on 1 against their alliance: A decent alliance will deny 469 balls and then proceed to whip their butts in 2 on 1...while they sit there.

(Of course, 469 knows this, so they are likely working to change their game. But there will always be a weakness....)

[johnr]

I don't know what matches you watched but 469 doesn't in anyway ,shape or form just sits there. If blocked they play midfield just like any other bot. They can start and stop the return loop set-up anytime they want. The best you can do is stop their auto set-up and then play hard defence against them,but then all you will have is 2v2. They are the best at what they do.

[Cory]

Originally Posted by Don Rotolo

A decent alliance will deny 469 balls and then proceed to whip their butts in 2 on 1...while they sit there.

If it was that easy 469 wouldn't have won a single event.

67 and 217 couldn't do it. That's far better than a decent alliance.

[AdamHeard]

Originally Posted by Don Rotolo

Ah, yes, you CAN have too much figurative language. Thanks Travis

So what's with Curie's obsession to prevent these teams from being #1 seed? Wouldn't you prefer to be something like 1st pick from the #1 seed?

Experienced teams know this, but #1 and #2 seeds rarely ally together. Not because they each think they can win it all 'on their own', but because they have robots that do not complement each other for that year's game.

OK, a concrete example: If you have three "front pusher bits", will that win you much? No, but an alliance with a front pusher bot, a mid kicker bot who hangs, and a defense bot who kicks across 2 zones and is fast - well, those three complement each other.

469 is too easy to defend against, once you've seen them. Oh, don't misunderstand: They are very good, and they will do well. But they don't move, and they need a second robot in their offensive zone to defend against the defender. So on the other side of the field, it's 2 on 1 against their alliance: A decent alliance will deny 469 balls and then proceed to whip their butts in 2 on 1...while they sit there.

(Of course, 469 knows this, so they are likely working to change their game. But there will always be a weakness....)

If 1114 and 469 pair, their excellent scouting will net them the best possible 3rd; From there, it will be domination.