Curie 2010!

[Sumathi]

Could anyone explain how Championships run? Someone in the thread earlier mentioned Curie winners facing the Archemides winners. There was also a mention to the Einstein field. A brief summary will do.

[Ryan Simpson]

Originally Posted by Sumathi

Could anyone explain how Championships run? Someone in the thread earlier mentioned Curie winners facing the Archemides winners. There was also a mention to the Einstein field. A brief summary will do.

In a nutshell:

There are 4 fields (Curie, Archimedes, Galileo, Newton). The winning alliances of those 4 fields face off on Einstein to determine the Championship winner. Einstein is basically the "Final Four" of the Championship Event.

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by Don Rotolo

469 is too easy to defend against, once you've seen them. Oh, don't misunderstand: They are very good, and they will do well. But they don't move, and they need a second robot in their offensive zone to defend against the defender. So on the other side of the field, it's 2 on 1 against their alliance: A decent alliance will deny 469 balls and then proceed to whip their butts in 2 on 1...while they sit there.

Not quite.

They've tried to assemble alliances that establish ball advantage in autonomous mode. if that happens, you've got a very much uphill battle.

If the cycle needs a few more balls, all they do is pop out of the tunnel and kick some over. They're a decent feeder bot even without their deflection.

[Tarzan19]

Originally Posted by Jeffy

Excited to see you guys in our division! I hope pits are in order of team number like they were the last time I was at championships. I never got to see the inner workings of your teams outstanding robot and would really like to know what makes this thing tick.

Sounds good. Looking forward to it. Cant wait to see how we as Kansas city teams do in Curie.

[kenavt]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

Not quite.

They've tried to assemble alliances that establish ball advantage in autonomous mode. if that happens, you've got a very much uphill battle.

If the cycle needs a few more balls, all they do is pop out of the tunnel and kick some over. They're a decent feeder bot even without their deflection.

They aren't just decent, they are one of the top five in the division. Without their deflection system (based on their kicker system), they would still be in eliminations.

[Racer26]

My thinking here is 1114 + 469 pairing up for elims makes their third bot almost completely irrelevant. Their third bot will be a bot that can start in the offensive zone, so 1114 can run their far zone auto, and then traverse the two bumps to go play (mostly irrelevant) defense. As much as I'd love to be that team, theres a limited amount of glory there. Upsetting a hypothetical 1114+469 alliance on the other hand, now THAT would stick in the minds of everyone who sees it. Even for one match. I am still blown away by SF1.1 at GTR, 2949/1305/1404 brought the thunder big time, and were beat 15-11 with 1114 and 1547 up for 4.

[Vikesrock]

Originally Posted by 1075guy

My thinking here is 1114 + 469 pairing up for elims makes their third bot almost completely irrelevant. Their third bot will be a bot that can start in the offensive zone, so 1114 can run their far zone auto, and then traverse the two bumps to go play (mostly irrelevant) defense. As much as I'd love to be that team, theres a limited amount of glory there. Upsetting a hypothetical 1114+469 alliance on the other hand, now THAT would stick in the minds of everyone who sees it. Even for one match. I am still blown away by SF1.1 at GTR, 2949/1305/1404 brought the thunder big time, and were beat 15-11 with 1114 and 1547 up for 4.

IMO this would be a mistake if 1114 and 469 got together and decided to play this way. I think there are two ways to go with that alliance. One way would be to go with a fast striker like 830 or 171 and try to clean up anything missed by 1114 and 469. You don't care how many they score because you can score more. Another way to go would be to get a robot with a strong drivetrain and decent kicker like 2041 and try to starve the opponent of balls entirely (this strategy may also work with a striker like listed above). If the opponents defender is trying to clear balls 2041 would stay in the near zone and push them around, while 1114 moves every ball they can get to forward into their near zone. If the defender can't clear balls effectively (probably a bad strategy by the opponents) 2041 could move back to the midzone and help 1114 move balls forward.

Having said all that, both the 1114 and 469 scouts and strategists are some of, if not the, best there are. If they pair up, they will already have a plan (actually a few probably) for how they would like to play and who fits that strategy.

EDIT: Thought of more I wanted to say here. Every alliance in every recent game is made up of 3 robots. The competition at the Championship is at a high enough level that even two impressive robots like 1114 and 469 will need the third robot if they want to win a championship. Whoever this third robot is they will certainly be remembered as a World Champion. A well respected mentor of a recent Championship team said that the Championship could have been won by even if they fielded a refrigerator, but I bet most CD members could tell you who the third member of the 1114-217 alliance was.

[Don Wright]

I just want to throw the other side of the coin to most of the posts in this thread. I know that this might seem like I'm trying to sway people to play differently than most of the posts above, but I just wanted to air it...

There are a lot of good teams in this division. Maybe it doesn't have the "star power" of the other divisions, but it's still very strong. Also, with the number of teams, and number of matches, the chance of getting in a qualification match with a top scoring team (either for or against) is low.

Remember, there are no wins and losses in qualification matches, only points. The only difference is that the alliance that scores more points gets two bonuses: 2x their opponent score and the 5 pt bonus.

If you want to seed well, you need to score as many points in every match you play as you possibly can. By scoring points, and seeding high, you can even control your own destiny by being in the top eight.

So, if that is your mindset, you might want to think about using your match with or against a top team to get a huge score and boost your seeding place. No, I'm not saying 6v0...although that is an option. I'm just saying that if you are lucky to get in 2 or 3 matches with a good scoring robot, those 30, 40, or 50 point matches will do a lot to getting you high into the rankings.

Furthermore, I believe that the third robot as a good striker is very important. We had a great striker in MSC and it won it for us. I will more likely take notice of the robots that go out every match and even just push in 6-8 balls per match than the robot that went out and (IMHO) didn't play the game very smart for qualifications and played defense the whole time. This causes both alliances to get a low score, which in qualification matches IS against the spirit of the game due to how the GDC has the scoring system this year... So even if you "win", you drop in rankings.

I know I'm going to have to put my flame suit on because a lot of you are going to take this as me trying to change how everyone plays against us so we can pair up with so-and-so...that's why I rarely (never) post in threads like this...

But, I honestly believe that if all of you focus so much on a few teams, and how to stop them, you are just going to hurt your chances to do well at the World Championships. It takes 24 robots and 8 alliances and 8 captains to play Saturday afternoon. Be one of those captains!

[Mrashes]

CURIE IS GONNA BE SICK! I'm really excited to see all of these teams and looking forward to meeting some new people! It's gonna be our last year at the Georgia Dome so lets bring home a Curie win!

Originally Posted by kenavt

But once they faced some really good competition at MSC they seemed to falter.

That is only because 830 had 4 blown victors for 3 Matches at MSC. In any matches they were fully functioning they were scoring 6-8 balls a match.

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by Don Wright

Furthermore, I believe that the third robot as a good striker is very important. We had a great striker in MSC and it won it for us. I will more likely take notice of the robots that go out every match and even just push in 6-8 balls per match than the robot that went out and (IMHO) didn't play the game very smart for qualifications and played defense the whole time. This causes both alliances to get a low score, which in qualification matches IS against the spirit of the game due to how the GDC has the scoring system this year... So even if you "win", you drop in rankings.

Man, I wish you guys were in Connecticut now...

The other side of the coin is what if you play as the GDC intended and run up scores all qualifying schedule long, possibly including a 6v0... and alliance captains decide that they would be disgusted to pick someone like you, because they have a personal prejudice against running up scores or avoiding defense? This is a bigger issue than I ever thought at the beginning of the season.

[PerpetualMotion]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

Man, I wish you guys were in Connecticut now...

The other side of the coin is what if you play as the GDC intended and run up scores all qualifying schedule long, possibly including a 6v0... and alliance captains decide that they would be disgusted to pick someone like you, because they have a personal prejudice against running up scores or avoiding defense? This is a bigger issue than I ever thought at the beginning of the season.

Anyone with this prejudice doesn't understand the game, or isn't willing to entertain strategies that will results in them winning championships, so I wouldn't want to be on their alliance anyways.

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by PerpetualMotion

Anyone with this prejudice doesn't understand the game, or isn't willing to entertain strategies that will results in them winning championships, so I wouldn't want to be on their alliance anyways.

I'll just say you would be very surprised at the teams that would do that.

[eyu100]

A question:

If it is the last qualification match, 469 is seeded 3rd (but they have finished all their matches), you are seeded 4th, 1114 is seeded 2nd and needs 20 seeding points to reach 1st seed, and you are on 1114's alliance, is it better to:

1. Play normally, possibly improving your position in the top 8, and almost certainly making 1114 first seed? OR
2. Have your human player refuse to return balls. This will rack up many DOGMA penalties and cause you (and 1114) to lose. 1114 will almost certainly not become the first seed.

The second option will break up the 1114-469 alliance, and since this is the last qualification match, you will still be an alliance captain. Does this make your team more likely to win the division?

EDIT: If you pick the second option, you can even pin the opposing robots to lower 1114's seeding score; you wouldn't care about the penalties (in fact, you would want them) since you are intending to lose anyway.

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by eyu100

A question:

If it is the last qualification match, 469 is seeded 3rd (but they have finished all their matches), you are seeded 4th, 1114 is seeded 2nd and needs 20 seeding points to reach 1st seed, and you are on 1114's alliance, is it better to:

1. Play normally, possibly improving your position in the top 8, and almost certainly making 1114 first seed? OR
2. Have your human player refuse to return balls. This will rack up many DOGMA penalties and cause you (and 1114) to lose. 1114 will almost certainly not become the first seed.

The second option will break up the 1114-469 alliance, and since this is the last qualification match, you will still be an alliance captain. Does this make your team more likely to win the division?

It makes the executer of such a strategy a massive jerk who will stop at nothing just to make an overhyped alliance not happen, and they'd go on my DNA/DNP list immediately. I know that's a bit harsh, but when is all this "lulz how are we going to stop 1114 and 469" discussion become too much? You want to win, but at that cost?

[sammyjalex]

Plain and simple, while it's become cliche, it doesn't stop being true: FIRST is about more than robots and a competition.

It's about bettering yourself as a human being and expanding your mind; becoming the person with the social and mental capabilities you dream of becoming.

Ask that question you just asked back to yourself and question how it reflects these ideals. What do you think your grandmother would say, as Woodie tends to say. What if you were in 1114's shoes and your partner was working against with complete intention? How would you feel?

That's just my two cents. Ask yourself first before asking the community because very often on these forums, moral dilemmas are posted as strategy. What does Gracious Professionalism mean to you? Give it meaning in your life.

Sam