Championship 2010 - Atlanta - Your Thoughts Please?

[Jared Russell]

Originally Posted by Andrew Schreiber

Oh, you mean have Alliances be composed of the number of robots on an alliance + 1... like it used to be? The rules used to specify that you had to play 100% of your alliance in any given elimination round. If you didn't use a team in one round you MUST use them in the next. At the Championship event it might be doable but at the smaller regionals finding 8 alliances of 4 teams is impossible. Yes doing it just at CMP would be an option but the real question is whether you want to have different game play rules at one event.

(Btw, I like this idea for CMP)

I would say that there should be no obligation to use all four, but the fourth is your only backup (like at IRI).

This would only make sense at CMP (where I think it would be a great idea).

[thefro526]

Originally Posted by Andrew Schreiber

Oh, you mean have Alliances be composed of the number of robots on an alliance + 1... like it used to be? The rules used to specify that you had to play 100% of your alliance in any given elimination round. If you didn't use a team in one round you MUST use them in the next. At the Championship event it might be doable but at the smaller regionals finding 8 alliances of 4 teams is impossible. Yes doing it just at CMP would be an option but the real question is whether you want to have different game play rules at one event.

(Btw, I like this idea for CMP)

Yes, I meant that during Alliance Selections a Captain would pick 3 teams, to make a 4 team alliance but only 3 of these teams would play during the match.

Basically, I envision it as a "pick your own backup" type of system, so that teams can switch out if they break and continue to play once they are fixed.

As far as play goes though, I don't think that the Alliance should be forced to use this fourth team to play, though it would be nice if the team were given a shot.

Perhaps FIRST can amend the rules next year to allow this to happen at events with more than 50 teams or so.

[Andy Grady]

Originally Posted by Tetraman

What gets me the most frustrated, is play-by-play announcers. Can we clone JonDarr? How is he not Einstein's announcer yet? Announcers should be exciting and engaging, and some are just BORING to listen to. Expecially if you sit at home watching the webcast. You hear the announcer more then the MC; a spirited Announcer is just as important as a spirited MC. Are there try-outs and cuts? Yes I understand that a job such as an announcer requires a person who knows what they are doing, but there can't be a total lack of volunteers with pip in their step and fire in their belly who know the whats what.

While I know that not every announcer is off the charts amazing, you gotta understand things from an announcers standpoint. On Galileo we ran 144 matches this year. 144! Do you realize how difficult it is to find exciting things to talk about in even half of those matches? As a game announcer, you try to be exciting as much as possible, but you can't just fill the time with a bunch of useless crap either. This can be particularly challenging when 6 robots are litterally doing death circles on the field. Not to mention, we have to save energy. Two and a half days of announcing is murder on your voice. This is also the reason for the rotation of announcers and splitting play by play and intros/scores. The guys we have work hard on the field, some are amazing and some are still learning the ropes. Every single one of them prepares hard, and tries to bring the best they can to the table for you. You will never make everyone happy, and you can't clone a JohnDarr for every field, so be patient. I know that the people organizing these events are trying hard to bring you the best product possible.

For the record also, Blair has been an institution on Einstein as a play by play announcer for years. There are certain traditions that shouldn't be touched, and that is one of them.

We appreciate your input, and I hope things get a little more enjoyable for your tastes in the future.

Congrats to all!

[ebarker]

I don't know how they do it.

I have to be careful if I spend to much time in the pits because it makes me lose my voice.

[rotolomi]

Originally Posted by Katie_UPS

For those wanting Einstein in the middle:
That will delay finals even more. Taking down the curtains (I imagine) is not a five minute task. Also, it would take time to set up the field, as having it there the entire event will affect robot traffic to Curie and Archimedes. Also, the "awards" stage and field/tech tables will have no where to be. I understand why you guys want it to be more center, but its just not logistically sound.

I agree, they can't just reel down the curtains and be done. What about those monitors and all the A/V setup underneath them? ALL of that would have to be relocated and it would take more time to set up, rather than having Einstein ready to be played on during the division semi-finals.

[JaneYoung]

Originally Posted by Andy Grady

We appreciate your input, and I hope things get a little more enjoyable for your tastes in the future.

I'm glad you guys appreciate the input, Andy Grady - because you are classy like that.

Me - not so much. I don't appreciate the griping and complaining about the announcers or MCs one little bit.

Jane

P.S. I respect the purpose of this thread. Thanks, Dave. I hope you are getting some of what you were asking for.

[Andrew Schreiber]

Originally Posted by Jared341

I would say that there should be no obligation to use all four, but the fourth is your only backup (like at IRI).

This would only make sense at CMP (where I think it would be a great idea).

Originally Posted by thefro526

Yes, I meant that during Alliance Selections a Captain would pick 3 teams, to make a 4 team alliance but only 3 of these teams would play during the match.

Basically, I envision it as a "pick your own backup" type of system, so that teams can switch out if they break and continue to play once they are fixed.

As far as play goes though, I don't think that the Alliance should be forced to use this fourth team to play, though it would be nice if the team were given a shot.

Perhaps FIRST can amend the rules next year to allow this to happen at events with more than 50 teams or so.

My logic for forcing teams to use the 4th robot is so that the last team plays an integral part in the alliance. Imagine a scenario where Team A is chosen by Alliance 1 and goes on to win the Championship but Team A never played. Can they say they were part of the Alliance? They were but they didn't play an active role.

[Coach Norm]

Originally Posted by GGCO

Sure, but you're an exception. There are plenty of teams that buy their way in and aren't an asset to their alliances.

I support the idea of teams getting to attend Championships without qualifying at a Regional. It is a great learning experience that some teams would not get to see otherwise.

Team 2468 chose to attend Championships as our second regional rather than attend another regional. It was a great experience and very valuable for my younger team members to scout for team ideas in regards to robots, pits, FTC robots, etc.

We finished in the top 20 at Lone Star and made the eliminations as an Alliance pick. We were defeated in the quarterfinals.

At Championships, we finished 19th in Galileo. I feel we were a benefit to all the alliances we were on in our qualification matches.

Being an ex high school basketball coach of 21 years, you only get better if you play more times and against better competition. Yes, Regionals provide an opportunity to learn and improve, but Championships allows a team to see it on the Grand Scale that it is. It is quite a motivator for a team to be there and see the machines and teams perform, not only on the field but in the pits, Hall of Fame teams, Robotics Conference, etc.



Just my 2 cents.

[Ryan Dognaux]

Originally Posted by Tetraman

What gets me the most frustrated, is play-by-play announcers. Can we clone JonDarr? How is he not Einstein's announcer yet? Announcers should be exciting and engaging, and some are just BORING to listen to. Expecially if you sit at home watching the webcast. You hear the announcer more then the MC; a spirited Announcer is just as important as a spirited MC. Are there try-outs and cuts? Yes I understand that a job such as an announcer requires a person who knows what they are doing, but there can't be a total lack of volunteers with pip in their step and fire in their belly who know the whats what.

Game announcing is one of the hardest things I've ever done at a regional event. Pack your lozenges, you're going to need them. It's easy to criticize these people but trying to think of things to say on the fly when absolutely nothing is going on out on the playing field is tough. Not only do they need to have a high energy level but they need a ridiculous amount of vocal stamina as well to last for 2 full days of announcing.

I watched Archimedes and thought the announcing was pretty good.

[Fireworks 234]

My only complaint that I feel hasn't been mentioned yet is the ridiculous camera angles being displayed for the Einstein matches.

The camera angles were annoying at times and they would constantly (every 2-3 seconds) switch to another angle. The beginning of the match consisted of the driver station view and the person in control of the view didn't take in to account the people watching from Galileo or Curie on their screen.

Overall I had a very difficult time trying to see what was going on through out the Einstein competition. Whether it was a lack of robots on screen or if it was a trigger-happy-camera-switcher, it all took away from the "epicness" of the final matches.

I do have to say, though, that the competition as a whole went over quite well. And for the first time in quite a few years, I'd have to say the temperature of the stadium wasn't freezing and the audio (on Curie) didn't seem out of hand.

Thanks for a great time!

[BrendanB]

Originally Posted by Fireworks 234

My only complaint that I feel hasn't been mentioned yet is the ridiculous camera angles being displayed for the Einstein matches.

The camera angles were annoying at times and they would constantly (every 2-3 seconds) switch to another angle. The beginning of the match consisted of the driver station view and the person in control of the view didn't take in to account the people watching from Galileo or Curie on their screen.

Overall I had a very difficult time trying to see what was going on through out the Einstein competition. Whether it was a lack of robots on screen or if it was a trigger-happy-camera-switcher, it all took away from the "epicness" of the final matches.

I do have to say, though, that the competition as a whole went over quite well. And for the first time in quite a few years, I'd have to say the temperature of the stadium wasn't freezing and the audio (on Curie) didn't seem out of hand.

Thanks for a great time!

YES! Especially when they moved the screen shot with the score in it. I really liked how in 2007 they had most of the screen designated to the field and each side had a shot of the red or blue alliance. To me this year's Einstein shot seemed more like a powerpoint then an actual video shot.

My only problem this year was in the stands. Our team uses laptops to scout which eliminates so much time of compiling data and allows us to scout more about robots in a match. One cool thing with this we were able to do was "predict" match scores. In qualification 41 we predicted a score of 15.5 (which rounds up to 16) to 9 in our favor, the end result was 16 to 9, very cool! However with the laptops we have to sit in the back so we can have power since they did not allow teams to run power down the stands (although some didn't get spoken to who did). For many matches teams would stand up which is a continual problem in FIRST especially at Championships because there is no assigned cheering section for teams in that match. What really bothered me was several teams who sat in the first 10 rows and stood up every single match they played in even though the field was right in front of them which blocked most of the field for everyone else in the rows behind us. We were met with a comment of "Why don't you stand up?" when we asked a team to sit down who stood up when no one was blocking their view in front of them. I really don't mind if you stand during introductions or you want to show spirit which does not equate to standing in any form during a match, but when you are asked to sit down and continue to stand it is just plain rude and you are only creating a negative image to other teams.

I agree that FIRST should move the fields back 10-20 feet which would create a huge difference and have volunteers stand a few feet farther away from the field. I don't think some people realize that even though they are one person in the stands or next to the field, they have the ability to block off a large section of the field when they stand.

Just my thoughts, but Championships were very fun and can't wait to see how Saint Louis is next year!

EDIT: I don't like the idea of having a "scouting section" as mentioned below and in other threads. We use 7+ people when we scout plus room to set up our server and such. We have one person per robot, one person supervising, one person overseeing the server, one person looking over data for the next match, and on the last day our head scout found it valuable for two people to watch the match as a whole and take notes. That is a total of 11 people scouting. Some might call it "over-obsessive", but our team takes scouting seriously and have won many matches that some may count as an immediate loss due to who we are playing or overlook robots in alliance picking who are real assets to an alliance key to their win.

If everyone would stay seated in their seats while a match was in process and moved when it was over, no team would have a problem with scouting or seeing a match. There were very few instances when everyone was sitting down and no one had any problem seeing the field or the robots on the field during a match.

As for team spirit, if you would like to show it, follow the crowd or Bees if you call it. Team 33 is one team who was very courteous and had a group of kids to the side of the field who showed spirit during a match so they did not obstruct view and had another group in the stands who were either scouting or just watching the match. Thank you team 33!

[Steve W]

Originally Posted by Coach Tom

I can not remember hearing the MC or game announcers mentioning sponsors unless the team happened to be sponsored by General Motors.... recognize the key sponsor of others.

I am not sure if it happened at Champs but at regionals we mention sponsors in the teams first match and their first match of Elims. There is just not enough time to do it all the time.

If the Einstein matches where held at center field then no one could see them. A better solution might be to put bigger screens at each field so that the matches could be watched from there. The camera work this year was the worst that I have seen in a long time. Too many close ups of dead or not doing anything robots while score is jumping like crazy. The end game video should include both towers not just the red as happened most of the matches I watched. Didn't know that the blue had hung until the score was shown. They have the capabilities they could do a split screen.

Announcers and Emcee's are liked and disliked for exactly the same reasons. I have had some tell me that they like my style of announcing and emceeing and others tell me that they don't. The point is that I know for a fact that neither of the jobs, if done properly, is very easy. I did not see all of the fields but i am sure that the volunteers did their best to make the event enjoyable and entertaining. BTW I believe that Blair has a huge job in making sure that the best available are the ones accepted. Blair is the Voice of FIRST and has a proven track record of being the very best.

Wednesdays could be improved if teams were allowed into the pits at 1:00 pm with inspections starting at 3:00 pm. Withe the amount of inspectors that we had it was a tough day and Thursday, even with double the inspectors, was tougher. I like the increased games but we need a bit more inspection time.

Seating. The biggest problem faced at all venues. My suggestion is that teams can sign up for reserved seats in the front rows of the venue or what might be some of the best seating. There would be a max of 6 scouts per team seated together. There would be a no standing rule during matches and people could only change out between matches. Result is that all teams would have equal scouting advantages and that all other teams could show their team spirit. Just an idea.

[Peter Matteson]

Originally Posted by WJF2011

1) dear god can we please have ALL the awards given out BEFORE einstein? it made me want to cry having to wait for each award between elims, like seriously if you want FIRST to be popular dont make the best part of it unbearably boring

This would be a bad idea. The purpose of spreading the awards out like this is to give the robots a cool down and reset time where there is other stuff going on. We also need the longer break at the begining to charge batteries from divisional finals. If you knew the chaos going on down there it makes more sense. Yes its slow and some of the speeches are longer but the mix is way better for the teams involved than the alternative.

[SmurfinLennon]

Originally Posted by Katie_UPS

I thoroughly enjoyed the event (but I was also team-less). I would comment that FIRST should note field awards ceremonies, as Curie's was still going on when they started the videos, and I'm sure many teams missed the Myth Busters.

I missed the Mythbusters

[DUCKIE]

Originally Posted by Coach Tom

I can not remember hearing the MC or game announcers mentioning sponsors

It would have been hard to announce them for every match with the increased number of matches and reduced match cycle time without falling way behind schedule.

I cannot speak for other fields... but I can verify that on Newton the announcer did switch to including the school and/or first listed sponsor in the team intros for at least one cycle of matches to slow down our match cycle time and keep us (field) from getting too far ahead of the scheduled match times.