Championship 2010 - Atlanta - Your Thoughts Please?

[waialua359]

Originally Posted by Koko Ed

There are teams who have won regionals who aren't exactly strong. Especially if they were at smaller events where the talent pool isn't as deep.
Not every team is going to be an 114, 469 or a 67.
The actual difference between them and everybody else isn't just the robot but knowing how to use those "lesser" robots to their advantage to win matches instead of just complaining about how crappy they are.

True to an extent, but not when they don't understand at this stage of the game that you don't touch the tower during the last 20 seconds 4 times and cost you a hard earned match. In that particular instance we reminded them about it prior.

[Collin Fultz]

I thought that everything worked VERY well in Atlanta this year. I admit, I was a little skeptical about how the Wednesday-Thursday would work. It didn’t work out as I expected; it worked out so much better. This is due to the teams and the volunteers. I think that five people per team is enough to do some good work. To me, any more and there would be people standing around or it would get too crowded. Here is what Cyber Blue had to do Wednesday night and accomplished with five people:

•Install (4) Swerve Drive Modules
•Install chain for Swerves
•Align Swerves
•Remove old roller
•Install new roller
•Install new pneumatic lines
•Install new compressor
•Install spike for lights
•Install Lights
•Install line tracking photo sensor
•Install Velcro strap for battery
•Encrypt radio
•Install radio
•Wire Swerve Module
•Wire all new sensors
•Wire new compressor
•Wire new spike
•Install camera

With a well thought out plan and each person knowing their roles, we got all of that done and had time to weigh and size our robot. I see adding more people as creating too much of a crowd in the pits. It was nice that very few teams were setting up their pits, or crowding the aisles. If anything, more time would be a better change than more people. A HUGE thanks goes to all of the Inspectors, Pit Admin Volunteers, and teams who made Wednesday night such a success.

Some other thoughts from the weekend:

I thought all of the announcers and MC’s were terrific. Whether it was Mark, Tyler, Emerson, JonDarr, Andy, or Sir Charles, each brought their own style to Archimedes. I’ve been on that side of things before. It’s TOUGH. Game Announcing is one of the hardest volunteer positions in FIRST. Those who GA at Championships are the best from each region of the country. You guys kept the energy up and were fantastic. There will always be dissenters. Keep up the good work!

Food is expensive in every stadium in every city. That’s all that needs to be said about it.

Teams saving seats was a little frustrating. Not enough to make me want to do anything about it, but if FIRST wants it to be a “rule” it needs to be enforced. Most teams I saw were pretty gracious about it if random people wanted to sit near them for a while. I have no problem with teams saving seats by putting people in every other seat or something like that, but teams saving seasts with towels, banners, tape, etc is a little silly. If you want to get the best seats, have your team get there early.

On teams standing up, again I think most teams do this the right way, and if you have a problem with it, go talk to their team personally. It’s amazing how people think that an appropriate response to someone standing in front of them is to yell at them. A team stood up in front of us for their first match on Friday. I calmly went up, after their match, and told an adult in a team shirt that people behind them (not just the row behind, but most of the section) couldn’t see when they stood and asked if they wouldn’t mind sitting during the match. The mentor agreed and apologized and spoke to his students. It was never a problem again. It wasn’t a surprise when this same team received a pretty major award Saturday afternoon.

Overall, I thought the entire weekend was fantastic. Opening and closing ceremonies weren’t terribly long. The crowds were great, the volunteers were amazing, and the matches were exciting.

Thank you to those who have made Atlanta such a great host city since 2004. Now, on to St. Louis!

[Jared Russell]

One more that I remembered:

Media Passes should be just that - used for TEAM MEDIA PERSONNEL ONLY! Many teams seemed to think that it was their excuse to put a scout/coach/mechanic on the field all day.

Moreover, the experience of coming out of the tunnel into the dome is something that is awesome to behold for the first time, and something that only a handful of students per team usually get to do. Why not make media passes a STUDENTS ONLY institution?

[JaneYoung]

Originally Posted by Jared341

Why not make media passes a STUDENTS ONLY institution?

Many students don't have camera equipment nor do their teams. We've been very lucky to have a parent on the team the past couple of years who brings his camera equipment and is willing to spend his time at the Championship taking photos of everything - not just the team. It's the first time in our team's history that we have had that luxury and that consistency with getting the job done. He would also switch out with a student who wanted to go down and take some photos with his (the student's) camera - but our parent was the main photographer last year. I'd hate to see that opportunity disappear.

Jane

[Jared Russell]

Originally Posted by JaneYoung

Many students don't have camera equipment, nor do their teams. We've been very lucky to have a parent on the team the past couple of years who brings his camera equipment and is willing to spend his time at the Championship taking photos of everything - not just the team. It's the first time in our team's history that we have had that luxury and that consistency with getting the job done. He would also switch out with a student who wanted to go down and take some photos with his (the student's) camera - but our parent was the main photographer last year. I'd hate to see that opportunity disappear.

Jane

Jane,

All good points - I can see now that there are reasons why adults would need to be media personnel for some teams. Notwithstanding, I would still like the intent of the media passes to be enforced on the field.

[JaneYoung]

Originally Posted by Jared341

Jane,

All good points - I can see now that there are reasons why adults would need to be media personnel for some teams. Notwithstanding, I would still like the intent of the media passes to be enforced on the field.

Agreed, Jared, and I started to say this in the first post and will add - in the distant past, we had students who abused the media pass privilege and it was frustrating. They would have access to some great shots and have the media pass but the camera would be dangling around their neck. At the end of a competition, there would be no photos. We improved in that area as far as making sure the people who volunteer to use the media pass - understand its one and only purpose.

I can understand that everyone wants access to the field(s) and to be around so many cool people and wonderful teams but - if they don't serve a purpose or have a valid reason for being near the field, they should not be there. This stance does not include VIPs. It must be thrilling for them to see everything close up and they serve a very important purpose. Well, the true VIPs do.

Jane

[mtaman02]

Originally Posted by Tom Line

5. The practice fields. We were surprised (and the volunteers confessed that they were surprised too) when the fields were shut down during elimination alliance selection and disassembled! A number of robots (I counted an easy dozen) came to the fields to check their robots or make small fixes but were turned away.

***Reguarding the Practice Field***

Yea, FIRST doesn't do this just for the Championship it's also done at the Regionals as well. I assisted with the running of the 2 Practice Fields back in '09 at Championships and while it is unfair to the teams, I had to close the fields when my boss (the head FTA) said to. I think the chief reasons for closing the fields during the Alliance Pairing / start of elimination rounds is to make sure Teams have enough time to get to their pit after the pairings to pack up if need be. We all have participated in one or more events and no oh to well that sometimes the way we pack things the first time might not pack the same way the second time. So all FIRST is really doing is making sure the teams have more then enough time to re-group and properly / securely pack their crates. It's nothing personal its more like assurance. I've had many teams (your lucky you only saw easily a dozen - I had up to 50 last year or more) come up to the field I was on and had to tell teams no.

As far as Practice Field Scheduling. I created a Schedule sheet in Word on a computer so I can keep track of Teams coming on and off. I had a Team of maybe 2-3 volunteers working one field and I had a fellow FTA and her 3 volunteers working the other field. We setup a schedule from the very minute pits open down to the final 20 minutes that pits would start to be closing (the remaining 20 minutes we used were to clean and repair the field) For lunch we just rotated out because we felt the 30 minutes on my field which was being used heavily would've hurt some teams for testing. We did our best to give each team like 4 practice rounds spaced out so that all teams can run the field after that then we told teams to check in every so often if they wanted to fill in. We had alot of teams who just sat in Queue by the field waiting b/c from time to time the Playing fields would either move ahead or behind schedule and we took those teams off and moved them to the next slot or off the page completely till they came and talked to us after their official match. We let each team run for an unheard of 10 minutes - we the volunteers screwed up on that simply b/c we didn't give ourselves any in between setup time and would often slip behind ourselves. Next year when I hope to run both fields again I hope to run half that time b/c even 5 - 6 minutes is more then enough because we have to acct. for Robots linking with the practice field electronics.

The one thing we didn't allow on the fields was more then 6 robots at a time b/c of the serious trouble we could've gotten in plus the huge safety risk involved since the field was only built around 6 and the added regolith made it that much more slippery.

I say overall in '09 the practice fields were run quite well with little to no complaints from the teams (and thats managing nearly 130+ teams on one field).

I was suppose to run both fields again this year as the attendant / FTAA but couldn't make it due to budget and lodging issues + work release time. Next year I should be able to attend providing I can meet all my obligations and so long as you guys are happy with the way I run it then I'll be back again year after year. I've worked as Queuing in all areas and now as FTAA so I have a pretty good handle on running things on or close to schedule with light tech support w/ little help except from fellow volunteers (meaning 1/2 - 1/4 of the guidance from my FTA boss).

[Boydean]

I agree about the media pass. I lost count how many times I saw students/adults with media pass, but lacked a camera or any of the sort. This is frustrating especially when the VIP/Media area in front of the field was pretty much packed on Galileo Friday morning.

I'm not sure how FIRST could enforce this much during the event other then highly stressing what the media pass is for.

[JesseK]

[FTC]
The awesome --
The FTA's, Emcee's, Field queuers, and Refs were all very good and very enthusiastic about what they were doing. It was a lot of fun to work with them. They also didn't mind us coming in and sweeping the field during lunch and in the morning so our drive train got more traction due to less junk on the field.

The good, in a backwards way --
The pit queuers, no matter how frustrated we were with them, kept up in their diligence with pushing us out to the Ga Dome 45 minutes before a match. Eventually we thought about moving our pits out there since we were only back in our pits for 30 minutes at a time. Towards the end of Friday though, all of it worked out well when we left the pits an hour early and sat behind the black curtain for 50 minutes because the queuer told us to. The good part about this was that it gave me the time I needed to photograph alot of the passing FRC robots and also talk to the teams about specific details that our FRC team hadn't been able to figure out. Many thanks to Chris Fultz on 234 for the swerve explanation since I had to miss the conference due to being in queue so much.

The bad --
The inspection process took two hours because of the lines. We offered to help with inspections since I did them at a local event, yet our offers were rejected. Finally, after standing in line for an hour and a half, they added some inspectors who didn't really examine the robots and simply gave us check marks if we answered "yes". The huge delays caused us to miss two of the conferences we wanted to attend. One might cite the old saying "Get there earlier since the early bird gets the worm." but that simply circumvents the larger problem of inspecting 100 teams in a timely manner and thus I would reply "If every worm got there early the birds would have a field day!"

The ugly --
I polled the students after Wednesday and Thursday just to see how things were going on the judging front. Not a single judge asked them about their robot design during the judging session, and only one asked them about it during the day on Thursday. Additionally, I learned that the judges in the session kept driving home the point that FTC teams need to differentiate themselves from their FRC counterparts in everything from fund raising to outreach. Our FTC kids took the forefront of outreach into their own hands with FLL mentoring and CyberDawn this year, yet in what universe does it remotely make sense for them to completely separate their finances from an associated FRC team? I wish the judging process were more transparent in this regard; if we don't even stand a chance since we have an FRC team then I'd rather not let the students put so much effort into giving the judges information that they're just going to throw away.

[Mark McLeod]

For the most part I'd rather have an adult do the media camera work.
Some students do very well, but for us at least they have been few and far between over the years. I've had the same experience as Jane. I'd send out student media and get back nothing, terribly composed shots, or clowning around with the camera that gave us nothing to work with for the team DVD or end-of-year slideshow.

I do not like, nor do I support witch hunts for people who did not take the Media badge seriously. Sniping is a poor sport. I have to admit, I have sent students out onto the dome floor on occasion just so they would get an experience they never would get unless they happened to qualify for the drive team. They carried a camera, but I did not expect to get any photos back. I firmly believe it's a poor example for the students for them to be taught to look at and disapprove of how other teams decide to operate in any instance.

I witnessed some bias and personally experienced uncalled for false conclusions while I was wearing our team Media pass on the field.
I got snide comments from the queuer about not acting as a coach or mechanic or whatever often while I was out there. I still took more than 20 GB of photos in Atlanta. I really like to take photos.

I promise I took no part in alliance discussions, I am a terrible mechanic, and I did not reprogram anything while in the Dome. I did get dragged onto a different field by an FTA to fix something just because I happened to be down on the Dome floor.

My camera rides on my belt or in the palm of my hand, and I probably looked like I wasn't carrying one half the time. I don't bring my big rig to Atlanta, but I have a pretty good HD, 12megapixel, 12X optical. Our best equipment with the bulky lenses was used in the stands by our main team photographer, because the designated media shooting areas were terrible on the field. The Media had to stand in and amongst the carts and I have banged and bruised shins for my trouble.

---------------------
That's one improvement I'd like to see in St. Louis. The Media shooting area at field level was completely obstructed by the mass of traffic routed between it and the playing field. We always have the necessary refs of course, but field attendants without apparent duties (not fielding escaped balls) wandered randomly and stood blocking the photographers. Then all the robots for the next match crossed and parked in the same area completely blocking all photography.
I understand the necessity for keeping the matches moving by getting the next robots into place to go onto the field, but some consideration of photography sight lines would be welcomed.
Perhaps a front section to the side in the elevated stands reserved for team photographers only while their teams for in a match - no sitting. Maybe risers up against the stadium wall to raise the photographers and their tripods.


A note on the judges… We had a small contingent this year and could not staff our pit to wait for the random arrival of judge interviewers. However, two judges were kind enough to track us down on the field and corral our drive team after a match to give them the opportunity to discuss their robot with them. I'd like very much to thank them for their over and above attention to duty.


And Northrop Grumman as a sponsor of 294 was mentioned almost every time Beach Cities were announced on Einstein. I took notice because that's where I work.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Mark McLeod

And Northrop Grumman as a sponsor of 294 was mentioned almost everytime the Beach Bots were announced on Einstein. I took notice because that's where I work.

Psst... Beach Bots are 330. 294 is Beach Cities Robotics.

You're not the first or the last to make that one.

[Alpha Beta]

I love the idea of having a 4th robot to switch out for the elimination rounds of the world championship. It would add a whole new level of strategy. 2992, a great looping robot went unselected in eliminations. We didn't select them because head to head with 469 that strategy would not have held up. We needed 888 (which was no longer with us by the time we faced off against 469) to use their excellent programers to try to stop 469 from lodging in the tower and then keep up the defensive pressure. Now if I could have used 2992 in quarters and semis when our offense was dominant and then brought in 888 as a defensive specialist for the division finals... As a strategist my head is spinning with the possibilities.

The serpentine draft would again favor the top alliances with the extra pick. I'm ok with that.

The field crew would need to be given a card from each alliance stating which robot is sitting out as soon as the previous match is over so that they can program the field and we don't have a situation of one team waiting for the other to setup before they make their decision.

It allows more teams a chance to still be in the game and gives the potential for a 4th World Champion each year.

I would add that the division winners cannot take their 4th robot to Einstein unless they played them in at least one game during the division elimination rounds... No other subs will be offered for failed robots.

Any team taking a 4th robot to Einstein must play them in at least 1 game to win the world championship. This would mean that in the Einstein finals the winner of the first match would have to sub in their 4th robot if they have not played them previously on Einstein. If that happens to make them lose then their opponents would be forced into a similar situation if they have not played their 4th robot earlier. This would include a robot that broke in division play. (Better have a good pit crew. There ought to be enough time during Dean's speech to fix just about anyones robot. )

[Mark McLeod]

Originally Posted by EricH

Psst... Beach Bots are 330. 294 is Beach Cities Robotics.

You're not the first or the last to make that one.

Sorry, Eric.
I spent the weekend a pit away from you guys and your name just sticks.

[Basel A]

I frankly don't have much to complain about. Most everything was great, just a couple things could be delta'd. MCs, I'm not talking about style, merely accurate information, even if Michigan is now in a different system. When did 2337 win the Michigan Regional? Actually, when has there ever been a Michigan Regional? There were also a couple comments about the Detroit Regional, etc. It's not really a problem, but huh?

Pit distance was annoying but that's been fixed. As said, food rules, while unfortunate, can't really be changed. More than 5 people in the pits on Wednesday would be nice. Everything else was great, I felt.

[Rob]

I have some positive and some negative observations. Hopefully we can continue to improve the championship experience by sharing these thoughts!

Positives:

Starting inspections and work on Wed night and starting matches on Thursday afternoon. This went, in my opinion, tremendously well. I think this change made a drastic improvement to the experience of many teams. I hope this is here to stay. Also, thank you to all of the volunteers who helped make this last minute addition possible!

Having more room in the pits. There was more space used in the giant hall this year and it made everything easier from moving through the pits to finding all of the "goodies" stashed throughout in booths and displays to being able to easily visit the FTC and FLL areas.

Negatives:

It seems that the four divisions field crews have a "race" each year to see who can finish their qual matches the earliest, with the prize bieng invited to be the field crew on einstein. I may be way of base here but from my observations it appears that this is the case. While this may be a good way to keep the volunteers entertained, I strongly feel that this creates a situation where rules and policies can be bent and the experience of teams can suffer. Teams work really hard to get to the Championship event. This "race" against the other divisions can detract from the teams experience and lead teams to feel as if the field crew believes the teams experience comes second to accelerating the schedule to finish early.

My second gripe is not Championship specific except that I feel that there should be consistency among ref calls across the board. A team should not be left scratching their head when presented with a ruling that seemed obvious. Specifically I am referring to an instance where the plastic cover to the field gate came off and was pushed in front of our tower. It interfered with our drive system and prevented us from reaching the tower to hang in a match that we lost 8-7. I can't think of a more clear example of a field failure, which should have resulted in a replay. The head ref informed us that we should not have driven over it. I beg to differ as we had a single path to the tower and it was blocked by this piece of the field that broke off. We may not have been able to elevate for the win, but would shure have appreciated the opportunity to try.

Anyhow, in general I thought that this was one of the bet championship events ever. I hope that it continues to move this way!

Rob