Dean Kamen, Manual Laborers, and You

[gvarndell]

Originally Posted by gblake

It is quite simply remembering about one's manners and being polite.

Thank you.
I think a 2X4 is a bit severe though.

[Kims Robot]

Originally Posted by lineskier

I don't think anyone would argue that Dean meant to offend people. I think the discussion here is more with regards to the fact that he did, unintentionally, and the complication that arose due to it. I think the individuals behind this thread are simply trying to bring to light that when Dean misarticulates, it has ramifications.

As I sat back and read this thread and read everyone analyzing Dean's words to the n'th degree, I could help but think I did not envy his position in the least. He has taken on the job of trying to change the culture while somehow trying to politically tiptoe around people's feelings... and just like our president every single word he says will be hashed and rehashed. We here on Chief Delphi rip apart every word he says, sometimes without trying to see the full meaning behind it.

I did a conference this past weekend on "Presentation Skills", and was even told by one of my students it was "SO Terrible" because after that he was analyzing everyone's speeches and now noticing everything they did wrong.

But my challenge is - you get up there and make a point as drastic as Dean's... as life changing as his and figure out a way not to offend someone. Its gotta be hard. I was scared enough going into a "Presentation Skills" conference in front of 50 people, knowing each of them would be analyzing my presentation skills. Now Dean has double duty of trying to convey a very powerful message, and do it as a great presenter.

Originally Posted by gorrilla

I was slightly saddened when Dean made this comment though, because it made me think about all the times my dad would come home from work(pumping concrete, not an easy job, he's 52 and doing a job I would struggle to do) and tell me that I better go to college so I dont have to do something like that.

Ditto.. my dad is "stuck" in a retail job at a woodworking store because he never finished his degree. While he doesn't have to constantly remind me of that, I am reminded of that when I see him having to refinance his mortgage or go a couple of months without fixing issues with his car, or not having taken a real vacation in over 10 years because he doesn't have the money.

I have a deep appreciation for all the skilled tradesmen and manual laborers. I thank the mailman and garbage collectors when I see them, I respect all of the technicians I have ever worked with for doing the hard and often repetitive work that I know would drive me insane. And for people that are passionate about those jobs all the better. But in FIRST, I want kids to see the opportunities that lie in science & technology careers. While I will hopefully teach them to respect absolutely every one and every career, I want their heros to be engineers & scientists. That means I'm not aiming for them to have heros that are actresses, basketball players, farmers, fishermen, stock traders, etc. There are places for all of that... but FIRST is for exposing kids to engineering. We can respect all of the shepard & Fedex people that cart all of our crates around, but that doesnt mean we intend to offend them when we say we want to be engineers.

I don't know about the rest of you, but Dean certainly changed my life drastically. So I for one would cut him some slack, try to find the good meaning behind what he said, and figure out a way to "pitch" it to any of those who are offended. While it definitely won't hurt to let Dean/FIRST know that those words caused offense, we can either pull everyone down complaining about it or rise towards the mission of this program.

[Andrew Schreiber]

Kim, I agree that Dean's words have been overanalyzed but I do think that dropping a letter to him letting him know that his words were interpreted by some as offensive has some value. Personally I would like to know if something I said in a presentation was way out of line. I would hope Dean is willing to accept criticism.

[Frenchie]

This thread reminded me of a New York Times Magazine article I read a while ago. It is a bit long, but definitely pertinent, and a good read.
It's about a PhD in political philosophy who decided to become a motorcycle mechanic.
Read up!
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/24/ma...agewanted=1&hp

[Doc Wu]

I worked as an autoworker for over 30 years. About half of that was assembly of components. The bigger half, about 18 years, was as an electrician.

Now, an electrician certainly does a lot of manual labor, but also has to have a lot of knowledge. Much of my work was done with a computer, not a screwdriver.

The work I did when I was first hired was brutal manual labor in hot, wet, dangerous conditions lifting heavy loads for long hours. Those jobs no longer exist. (At least in that plant.)

Today, manual assembly jobs aren't anything like they were. No heavy lifting without some kind of mechanical device. Almost every aspect of it has been improved. The unions and OSHA have been responsible for some of it, but mainly, it just makes sense to let machinery do the more demanding work and spare the expensive human worker. (Unfortunately, it also has reduced the numbers of human laborers.)

But technology made this possible. People today wouldn't do the jobs I did in the 70's. Some of them didn't then. I saw new-hires walk out and quit! It's still hot in the plant I worked in, but most jobs are pretty tolerable by comparison.

Along with that comes a higher level of technological understanding required by even basic laborers. To operate those machines, you had to pick up some understanding of how they operate. Many of them have some sort of computer screen. If you can't read, you're pretty much out of luck. It's not rocket science, but a basic understanding of how things work can make the difference between being someone who has to be trained on one machine for weeks and being someone who can pick up a new machine in a few hours. Which is more valuable to an employer?

So it even trickles down to the lowest level of the workforce. I don't know what Dean was thinking or meant when he said what he did, but I'm sure in his mind he knew and simply raced ahead, making his point, not thinking we all needed more details to follow along.

I'd certainly take time to write Dean a letter explaining how his remarks cost you a sponsor. Give him specific details and contact information and let him have the opportunity to explain his remarks and repair the misunderstanding. I'd be surprised if losing even one sponsor wouldn't concern him greatly.

There is nothing wrong with being a manual laborer, but even if that is your choice of careers, in today's workforce, every bit of education you get gives you more choices and more opportunities. I worked with a number of skilled trades people who either had college degrees or were part way through getting one. There are even degree programs for farming. Even Garbagemen have become Sanitation Workers, and even "Environmental Social Workers." I can't think of any jobs at all that haven't been improved by technology.

FIRST should be about being an opportunity and inspiration to anyone, whether they intend to pursue an Engineering Degree, or not. I think one of they beauties of the program is how it can include so many different interests our students have.

Science and Technology is like the tide in the ocean, it raises all ships together, whether they're an engineering ship or a manual labor ship.

[Sunshine]

Originally Posted by Kims Robot

I did a conference this past weekend on "Presentation Skills", and was even told by one of my students it was "SO Terrible" because after that he was analyzing everyone's speeches and now noticing everything they did wrong.
.

Did you also tell you students to stick to the script? Are they taught to prepare and not 'wing it"? Do you explain that they should get right to the point and not get "long winded"?

Bad things can happen when you are not prepared and say things that come to top of your head. We've all been there. And unfortunately I believe we all witnessed Dean doing the same thing. He is a great man who has done great things. But sometimes I just wish he would stick to the script and get on with the show.

[gvarndell]

Originally Posted by ebarker

Dean needs to address this in one of his future events. And I think it would be cool to get Mike Rowe on board.
Ed

That is an address I look forward to hearing almost as much as I look forward to the next build season.
The semantic dancing will be epic.

And it shouldn't be difficult to get Mike Rowe on board.
With all the dirty jobs available at champs, he could film a couple segments for his show -- that would be awesome.

[N7UJJ]

It's not the message, but the Communicator.

I don't think Dean's message about aspiring to a professional degree is the cause of the elitist paradox, but rather the fact that Dean said it. Had one of the arena workers said the same, we would have stood and applauded him/her. My dad, a bus driver, told me the same thing. He also told me that anyone making an honest living deserves respect for their contribution to us all. I'm sure Dean's views are the same.

Dean's delivery is not the best, but his points are insightful and very "quoteworthy". More like being in a brainstorming session rather than the slick, edited final version.

Several years ago we were visiting an elite engineering oriented high school. Students were drawn from all over the city and were selected by high math scores, language skills -- cream of the crop. One activity they participated in was a competition to see how far a student-made vehicle could travel on a fixed, small amount of gasoline. They would always lose to rural schools "out in the sticks". When the kids asked their teacher how this could be, he replied, "While you are preparing yourselves academically for engineering, those kids have been keeping machinery running on the farm for years. they can "feel" what will work and how to coax a little more performance out of an engine. They have a life time of experience."

Our high school robotics club has competed in a number of engineering competitions with university teams. High school kids who have worked on projects for several years can beat university seniors whose "hands-on" experience is a fourth year, one semester capstone project.

Manual labor experience with engineering training is a powerful combination.

[Alan Anderson]

Change the pronunciation of one word slightly to replace "manual labor" with "menial labor". Is that still offensive?

[JaneYoung]

Originally Posted by Alan Anderson

Change the pronunciation of one word slightly to replace "manual labor" with "menial labor". Is that still offensive?

I thought about that last night and again, it is the context in how it is used. This message of Dean's is not new and I don't think he said it without thinking or as an unprepared statement. He knows the possibilities of technology. We've touched on that in this thread - and how it can improve lives. We're losing that message here - improving lives in many ways: opportunity, change, advancement. In a few generations, we will remember the old times or be the old timers. I think Doc Wu explains that beautifully. And Dr. Cameron shows us how students can apply skills and knowledge in ways that advance opportunity and achievement - and beat the competition.

Jane

[gvarndell]

Originally Posted by Alan Anderson

Change the pronunciation of one word slightly to replace "manual labor" with "menial labor". Is that still offensive?

Coupled with any suggestion that people ought not aspire to it, it would probably be more so.
But then I saw no offense in what was said in the first place.

Edit: Although, it would probably have the effect of reducing the number of people who took offense.
People who don't view their vocation as menial labor would let it slide I guess.
And people who don't know the meaning of the word 'menial' would probably remain unruffled.

[Taylor]

At some point, I have told every student I have had about the three most important people in any building. Not the CEO, not the engineer, not the assembly workers. The three most important people in any business are secretaries, cooks, and janitors. If you are in the good graces of these three groups, you have access to things the President of the company doesn't even know about.

I think I can say with some certainty that the students on 1529 respect me. I can say with absolute certainty that the students on 1529 idolize Dean Kamen (or Woodie Flowers or Dave Lavery etc.). However, my team has virtually daily interactions with me; their exposure to these fine gentlemen is once, maybe twice a year. And those interactions aren't exactly two-way. Whatever "elitist" comment Dean makes does not override the daily lessons the team learns. I guess what I'm getting at is my team decides how my team operates, not Dean Kamen.

To extend the analogy a bit further, I imagine most everybody on here respects his or her father. But somewhere along the line, Dear Old Dad probably said something that we found a bit coarse/bothersome/offensive, and he probably did this in front of our friends. Did this stop our friendship with Jimmy and Timmy and Sally? I'd hope not, and I'd hope Father Kamen's misstep doesn't affect your relationships with your sponsor-friends either.

[Andrew Schreiber]

Just some thoughts rattling in my brain today. Dean's comments strike me as very odd coming from him. Dean does not have a degree. (He has an honorary degree) Perhaps he is regretting not having finished college? I am not bashing Dean, this is just some piece of information that is making me wonder all the more what prompted comments like these.

Sorry for bringing this thread back to life.

[mwtidd]

Originally Posted by Andrew Schreiber

Dean's comments strike me as very odd coming from him. Dean does not have a degree.

It is interesting that some of the best minds in innovation actually dropped out, including Dean and Gates. By going to college you limit risk, but at what cost? For me it was over $140,000.


For anyone looking into colleges, consider looking into other schools than the ones you think of at first. For example, UC boulder has an equivalent if not better CS program to WPI but at $12,000 less (for out of state) which with interest is almost a $55,000 savings.

Also if you plan on going to a state school like uc boulder, consider taking a year off and moving there and becoming a resident. By doing that you would save another $20,000 off the tuition. (remember you do have to worry about getting accepted so there is a risk that you would waste that year if you were rejected)

There are many factors that play into picking your school, but I would encourage you to look around a little more than I did. I think you'll be surprised at what you find.

I know its off-topic for this thread, but I wish someone had encouraged me to do this.

[Daniel_LaFleur]

Originally Posted by Alan Anderson

Change the pronunciation of one word slightly to replace "manual labor" with "menial labor". Is that still offensive?

I'm not so sure 'menial labor' is the proper terms either (as it can be offensive). I would use the term 'unskilled labor'.