G13, G44 and Pinching Rollers

[TEE]

Originally Posted by Cory

I'm obviously not an impartial source but I was field side directly in front of 33 when they got called for one of those carrying penalties. They were not being interacted with by another robot and were not against a bump. I saw the ref signal it and I saw the ball come up off the ground a bit. It wasn't very blatant, it's not like it was 2" off the ground-but you could see it come up.

If that's the case I apologize. I remembered a lot of jostling, and I remember the bumps being the cause of the ball-carrying, and I guess I inferred subconsciously that 33 got pushed up the ramp

and when I said I was disappointed in some referees, I was referring to earlier competitions. There was an instance where our hook missed (during the finale), and ended up hanging 5 or so inches outside of our bumpers, and the refs called a penalty. Afterwards, we pointed out that robot is allowed to expand to the finale configuration (eg. go outside bumpers) during the finale, the head referee said that you could only get wider in the space above the robot O.o we then showed him the rule, and he waived the penalty. I would understand if it were in the earlier competitions, but I believe this was during the Michigan State Competition.

@ Wayne: If it was obvious, I would assume not. That said, I wouldn't put someone who's easily pushed around in that precarious position
And if you're attempting to find a way to defeat 469, I would suggest looking into what 294 did... they were amazing. Somewhere in the thread below, the driver coach (I think) for 294 described their strategy.

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...595#post956595

[Wayne TenBrink]

Originally Posted by jspatz1

Absolutely right. Everyone has the right to push the envelope, that is what sometimes separates the good robots from the great. Any penalty-capable feature is a calculated risk. You can be sure there were many momentary lifts by pinch rollers this year that were not caught by referees. Judging how far you can push a rule is a design decision we face with almost every game. Just one aspect of predicting what the gameplay will really be like.

I don't advocate pushing the rules in hopes of slipping something past the referees. I just wouldn't write off a good idea because it introduced he possibility of a penalty. Many pinching roller ball collectors didn't compensate for irregularities in the floor and "carried" balls for brief periods. I think they deserved to get called for carrying whenever they did it, and the referees didn't owe them the benefit of the doubt on a close call. Nevertheless, a functional ball collector that collects an occasional penalty is better than no ball collector at all. 469 may have gotten called for active mechanism above the bumper once or twice, but that doesn't mean their ball deflector switch was a liability. 1918's wide ball collector was physically capable possessing more than one ball at a time, but the ease of ball acquisition outweighed the risk of penalties and the occasional hassle of having to take evasive action.

[Joe Ross]

Originally Posted by Wayne TenBrink

The question: If a "red" robot was parked on top of the bump next to the "blue" home zone, would/should they be penalized if a red robot pushed them off the bump and into the blue zone, making them the 2nd red bot in the blue zone? Is that part of normal contact or is that forcing a penalty? (For example, if my alliance is playing against 469 at the MARC and we put a robot on the bump right next to them, would we get a red card if somebody pushed that bot off the bump?)

My gut feel is that getting pushed in would be be considered forcing a penalty and not called. However, if the team that got pushed in did not try to immediately get out, it would then be a penalty. Getting pushed in isn't an excuse for having 2 robots playing defense in the opponents home zone.

[jspatz1]

Originally Posted by Wayne TenBrink

a functional ball collector that collects an occasional penalty is better than no ball collector at all. 469 may have gotten called for active mechanism above the bumper once or twice, but that doesn't mean their ball deflector switch was a liability. 1918's wide ball collector was physically capable possessing more than one ball at a time, but the ease of ball acquisition outweighed the risk of penalties and the occasional hassle of having to take evasive action.

Yes this is exactly what I meant by a calculated risk/reward. We also had and extra-wide ball magnet that could easily possess more than one ball, but its extreme effectiveness in easy acquisition made it more than worth the risk. I don't believe we ever recieved a multiple possession call, although I can't claim for sure that it never inadvertently happened.