Girls in Engineering- Comic that explains it all

[Katie_UPS]

I found a web-comic here, and wanted to share it with CD (I wish there were a better way that a new thread that isn't CD media). I chuckled at the humor, even though it has serious undertones (that make you think). Just wanted to share.

[The Cyborg]

I completely agree with the message that this comic is putting out there. I've always hated the stereotypes that people are put into just because they are born the way they are, male or female.

I was an oddball child who enjoyed Transformers and Dinosaurs more than Barbies and Ponies, but I've always tried to hide my interests from others in fear of being rejected because I like things that girls aren't really associated with.

This comic basically hits the nail on the head about how I feel on this subject. Thank you so much for sharing it with us.

[kstl99]

I always dislike it when McDonalds asks if you want a boy or girl toy with a Happy Meal. I always answer with the type of toy instead.

I have noticed after working in engineering for the past 15 to 20 years that it is quite true that there are very few females in engineering but I am encouraged that the percentage is so much higher in FIRST.

[Jack Jones]

I think the conclusion is based on a false premise. It’s not the toy that makes the boy. Have you ever seen what happens when you light a Barbie on fire, or strap her to a cherry bomb, or tie her to a railroad track? If you personify the doll and make it your friend, then you would be less likely to go into engineering than someone who sees it as a few ounces of plastic in a humanoid shape that’d make for an interesting projectile. It’s as simple as that.

If "society" expects all girls to be sugar and spice and all boys to be snakes and snails, then that’s their hang-up. If you buy into that, then the hang-up is yours.

[Cynette]

That is great! And it gives a hint that the problem is not in the selection of the toys, but in the explanation of what can be done with the toy.

I happen to like dolls. We are encouraging free play and the use of imagination by offering the doll as a doll, but maybe we need to be more focused in our suggestions. But not in the same focus as the current marketing of dolls, who have a specific career or purpose - mostly superficial. You don't have to get as far as torching the thing (Jack ), but since my brothers did routinely love to pull off their heads, I had the opportunities to learn how they were put together and what household items I could use to recreate the factory built system. How about designing clothes for them? That teaches spatial relations - how do you turn this flat piece of material into a three dimensional object that fits the doll. Sewing, especially following a pattern and the accompanying directions, is engineering technology at its finest! (And it comes in handy when building bumpers and assorted field components.)

One of the things I actually found most fascinating about the cartoon was that the ad in the sidebar was for Jenny Craig, reminding me that I could lose 20 lbs for $20. So now that the cartoon suggests why there are fewer "girl" engineers, the ad beats down once again on the self esteem - even Valerie Bertinelli can't be happy unless she is thin. And looks like Barbie.

[IKE]

I was given and played with a Cabbage Patch Kid when I was younger. By 2nd grade, the guidance counselor had diagnosed me with "the knack". By that age, I knew I wanted to make the machines that made the toys. I am sure my dad wasn't thrilled that his son was playing with a doll, but he never told me otherwise. I did get to work on tractors more than my sisters, but that was only because I was more interested (both of them had to learn how to operate the tractors, bailers, mowers...). I am not saying marketing doesn't play into the genderfication of toys and thus careers, but I will say it isn't the only thing.

[Andrew Schreiber]

Originally Posted by Jack Jones

I think the conclusion is based on a false premise. It’s not the toy that makes the boy. Have you ever seen what happens when you light a Barbie on fire, or strap her to a cherry bomb, or tie her to a railroad track? If you personify the doll and make it your friend, then you would be less likely to go into engineering than someone who sees it as a few ounces of plastic in a humanoid shape that’d make for an interesting projectile. It’s as simple as that.

If "society" expects all girls to be sugar and spice and all boys to be snakes and snails, then that’s their hang-up. If you buy into that, then the hang-up is yours.

I have to agree with Mr. Jones here. I personally think at this point the divide is more based on perception than fact. Yes males dominate engineering fields but not because it is some big secret plot against women. I rarely hear a person saying that women are incapable of engineering (I say rarely because there ARE still people who think that but they are in the same boat as the people who think the world is flat). Women aren't in engineering in larger numbers because, in a lot of cases, they simply don't want to be. You don't hear people worrying about there not being enough male nurses*. What about female construction workers? Remember, there are distinct differences in how male and female brains are wired. I know it is great to think that everyone is created equal but it simply isn't true. Some people are simply not meant to be engineers. If they still decide they want to then more power to them but life would suck without the writers of the world.

I'm not saying women shouldn't be engineers, just saying that maybe there is a reason women don't go into engineering more.



*This is a stereotype and I have no numbers to back it up.

[JaneYoung]

Understanding that it is important to capture the idea very quickly in a comic, I almost feel that it is missing the point. It does achieve the goal of recognizing that the lack of diversity in the engineering field is a problem but – how it arrives to that goal feels dated and narrow.

The struggle for girls’ attention lies in the homes, the schools, the communities they grow up in, and in the media. The recognition and validation of the child’s worth and intelligence is at the heart of this. How many television shows center around the imagination and exploration of the child’s mind, curiosity, and creativity? How many shows showcase the opportunities to build, construct, design, or develop ideas and programs?

A girl doesn’t have to be a boy or think like a boy to be an engineer or scientist. She can be very capable of finding the balance between the analytical approach to problem solving and the nurturing tendency to want to improve and make things better. So can a boy. It doesn’t have to be either/or – it can be discovering, experimenting, encouraging some risk taking in finding solutions to problems and working with the results. Cynette provides an excellent example of this with working through challenges created by her brothers’ removal of her Barbie’s hair and with creating wardrobes.

I was a child who created play villages out of dirt, water, rocks and sticks. My favorite part was building levels of the village and making roads. Finding raw materials to create smooth roads that also provided an effect that was pleasing to the eye and showed attention to detail was what held my interest. My parents provided space, time, and freedom for that activity to occur, summer after summer. Sometimes, my brother would offer suggestions and assistance. We worked together on my villages, sometimes peacefully, sometimes with deep arguments regarding which way the road should turn and if we should dig into the side of the hill for more levels. Often, the arguments reached compromise or agreement and the building continued. Rarely did things come to a halt because of disagreements. My Barbies were safe and sound in their special suitcase with all of their lovely outfits that my mom made for them – ready for some playtime when I finished enjoying the freedom of building and designing villages outside. During high school and college, I found myself involved in building large props for musicals and plays, working as a light tech, and a sound tech while occasionally taking on acting roles in the various productions. I found the acting boring because I liked all of the equipment and how it made things work and look.

When my son got involved in a robotics team, it was one of the first programs for students that made a whole lot of sense to me, providing an opportunity to combine and develop many skills in many areas – not just the technical ones but areas of communication, marketing, and team building. Much like building a village involving lots of levels.

[JaneYoung]

Originally Posted by JaneYoung

The struggle for girls’ attention lies in the homes, the schools, the communities they grow up in, and in the media. The recognition and validation of the child’s worth and intelligence is at the heart of this. How many television shows center around the imagination and exploration of the child’s mind, curiosity, and creativity? How many shows showcase the opportunities to build, construct, design, or develop ideas and programs?

I'm going to quote myself here, please bear with me.

If you substitute exploration with the word, exploitation, then you are moving pretty close to the core of the images and demands that bombard society's senses hourly, non-stop, and rapid-fire, today. And therein lies a large part of our problem in a lot of areas. When learning, exploration, and adventure become a part of each child's daily life - then we will be moving in a direction that will ease our diversity dilemma and others.

Jane

[GaryVoshol]

My daughter can probably give you better insights, but I'll try.

She was on an all-girls FLL team starting about 10 years ago. They often heard comments like, "All girls?" "No boys?" "Where's the boys?" They were much too gracious to say, "Why, don't you think girls can do it?" BTW, they were invited to the World Festival pilot at Disney, and World Festivals at Houston and Atlanta. And they had a good answer to that last question: the boys were at home because their team dissolved after the first year, when they all "knew best" and they couldn't compromise.

In HS, she was able to go to several "Women in Engineering" events and camps. The ones she liked best were those that DID engineering; the ones she liked least were the ones that told girls they were powerful, they could do anything they set their minds to - because she knew all that. She didn't want to hear it again, she wanted to do things.

Susan Lawrence, an FRC regional director, has some very interesting stories about her mentor who was the first woman admitted to her engineering school. Thankfully we're far beyond that!

[gvarndell]

Girl toy...
Hhhm, looks the same as a boy toy to me

[Mikell Taylor]

I don't disagree that the comic is a little simplistic (yet I am amused), and I won't call out anyone in particular, because I'm sure the sentiment is sadly widespread, but:

Saying that it's not about the toy, or that women "just don't want to be" in engineering, doesn't really cut it. There are demonstrative patterns of discouragement toward young girls who express interest in or talent for science, math, and engineering. I'm not sure I realized it in high school, but looking back on it with the perspective of four years of an engineering degree and four years in the industry, I'm a little shocked at how negatively -- albeit probably subconsciously -- people responded to my interest (thankfully I had some wonderfully supportive parents and FIRST mentors). A lot of this even occurred, I'm sad to say, within the context of FIRST events. And don't even get me started on the continued sexism and discouragement my female friends and I have encountered out here in "the real world".

Yes, there are lots of things you can do to explode Barbie instead of dress her up and cut her hair. But kids are given toys with the expectation that they will do a certain thing with them. That expectation is strong, and can really alter the way a kid behaves. If I blew up Barbie with a rocket launch kit, most parents wouldn't say "ah, a future pyrotechnic engineer!" and give me more Barbies and rockets. They'd take the rocket kit away from me since it would make me "violent" -- and girls don't do that, you know. The toys may be inherently genderless, but the reactions of those around you to how you play with them do shape your behavior.

Men and women do think differently. Lots of people think differently. We don't write off large percentages of the population because they have brown hair instead of blonde or they're different races or they're tall instead of short -- and hey, those are genetic and biological differences. Why write off women? Why not try to understand why there aren't more, and see how engineering could change -- probably for the better! -- through more and unique input from an underrepresented portion of the population?

Also keep in mind -- the generalization that "women just aren't predisposed to like engineering" can make those of us who DO love engineering feel like freaks. Do I have a more "male" brain? Am I less feminine? Or did I just happen to grow up under the right set of conditions that fostered a love and passion for science and technology? I like to think it's the latter, and that it's something I can pass on to other kids I mentor or, eventually, parent.

As you may guess I have very strong feelings on this topic. I don't want to prevent discussion -- discussion is good! -- but think hard about what you say and assume and how it affects the women you work with in FIRST, school, and your job.

[Mikell Taylor]

I hate to double post, but I wanted to address one other point:

I do think it's a shame there aren't more male nurses, and I don't think that's a genetic thing either -- I think it's how society responds to it. Remember that movie "Meet the Parents" that was full of LOL YOU'RE A MALE NURSE jokes? We can laugh at that, but switch that around and imagine a movie full of LOL YOU'RE A FEMALE ENGINEER? jokes. It'd be totally un-PC and frankly, the "male nurse" version should be too.

I think until we manage to reduce -- hell, eliminate -- the glaringly obvious prejudices and social factors from the equation, it's unfair and harmful to write it off as biological predisposition.

[Jack Jones]

Right – let’s just ignore everything we see and believe it’s the way people tell us it should be.

[joeweber]

The cartoon does hit upon the sentiment that has been driven into our society for years and will take years to change or reverse. It is not that a girl should or should not play with a doll or a boy should or should not play with a truck, it’s that a person should do what they enjoy doing with out pressure from society. The best way is to start now and do better now and in the future. We are aware of this in our meetings and make sure that boy’s do not push a girl off a project (trying to be in charge “let me show you how to do it”) or that a girl should not be quiet and let the boy do this. Our students learn from each other equally how to do things and if they forget than we have a demerit jar to remind them. It is easy to be sexist with out thinking and this can really hurt the team if it is allowed to continue, so you must be diligent and keep reminding all to be far to others on the team.