Girls in Engineering- Comic that explains it all

[gvarndell]

Girl toy...
Hhhm, looks the same as a boy toy to me

[Mikell Taylor]

I don't disagree that the comic is a little simplistic (yet I am amused), and I won't call out anyone in particular, because I'm sure the sentiment is sadly widespread, but:

Saying that it's not about the toy, or that women "just don't want to be" in engineering, doesn't really cut it. There are demonstrative patterns of discouragement toward young girls who express interest in or talent for science, math, and engineering. I'm not sure I realized it in high school, but looking back on it with the perspective of four years of an engineering degree and four years in the industry, I'm a little shocked at how negatively -- albeit probably subconsciously -- people responded to my interest (thankfully I had some wonderfully supportive parents and FIRST mentors). A lot of this even occurred, I'm sad to say, within the context of FIRST events. And don't even get me started on the continued sexism and discouragement my female friends and I have encountered out here in "the real world".

Yes, there are lots of things you can do to explode Barbie instead of dress her up and cut her hair. But kids are given toys with the expectation that they will do a certain thing with them. That expectation is strong, and can really alter the way a kid behaves. If I blew up Barbie with a rocket launch kit, most parents wouldn't say "ah, a future pyrotechnic engineer!" and give me more Barbies and rockets. They'd take the rocket kit away from me since it would make me "violent" -- and girls don't do that, you know. The toys may be inherently genderless, but the reactions of those around you to how you play with them do shape your behavior.

Men and women do think differently. Lots of people think differently. We don't write off large percentages of the population because they have brown hair instead of blonde or they're different races or they're tall instead of short -- and hey, those are genetic and biological differences. Why write off women? Why not try to understand why there aren't more, and see how engineering could change -- probably for the better! -- through more and unique input from an underrepresented portion of the population?

Also keep in mind -- the generalization that "women just aren't predisposed to like engineering" can make those of us who DO love engineering feel like freaks. Do I have a more "male" brain? Am I less feminine? Or did I just happen to grow up under the right set of conditions that fostered a love and passion for science and technology? I like to think it's the latter, and that it's something I can pass on to other kids I mentor or, eventually, parent.

As you may guess I have very strong feelings on this topic. I don't want to prevent discussion -- discussion is good! -- but think hard about what you say and assume and how it affects the women you work with in FIRST, school, and your job.

[Mikell Taylor]

I hate to double post, but I wanted to address one other point:

I do think it's a shame there aren't more male nurses, and I don't think that's a genetic thing either -- I think it's how society responds to it. Remember that movie "Meet the Parents" that was full of LOL YOU'RE A MALE NURSE jokes? We can laugh at that, but switch that around and imagine a movie full of LOL YOU'RE A FEMALE ENGINEER? jokes. It'd be totally un-PC and frankly, the "male nurse" version should be too.

I think until we manage to reduce -- hell, eliminate -- the glaringly obvious prejudices and social factors from the equation, it's unfair and harmful to write it off as biological predisposition.

[Jack Jones]

Right – let’s just ignore everything we see and believe it’s the way people tell us it should be.

[joeweber]

The cartoon does hit upon the sentiment that has been driven into our society for years and will take years to change or reverse. It is not that a girl should or should not play with a doll or a boy should or should not play with a truck, it’s that a person should do what they enjoy doing with out pressure from society. The best way is to start now and do better now and in the future. We are aware of this in our meetings and make sure that boy’s do not push a girl off a project (trying to be in charge “let me show you how to do it”) or that a girl should not be quiet and let the boy do this. Our students learn from each other equally how to do things and if they forget than we have a demerit jar to remind them. It is easy to be sexist with out thinking and this can really hurt the team if it is allowed to continue, so you must be diligent and keep reminding all to be far to others on the team.

[JaneYoung]

Society will always apply pressure. That's a reality.
Another reality is that many of the mentors in FIRST are applying pressure, too:

to think.

Jane

[Karibou]

I agree with the comic as to the reason why there are fewer women engineers. Do I like it? No. Is it true? I think so, at least in part.

And it's only true for some cases - if I had been given Transformers and skateboards and Batmobiles and action figures as a kid, I probably would have still been dead set against engineering until I joined my team freshman year. I didn't become fascinated with the way things worked until that year. I never wanted to turn out like my mom, with an engineering degree. EVER. I hated math. H-a-t-e-d m-a-t-h. Why would I EVER want to do math for a living? That's not fun. Science is fun, math is not. I want to play my instrument and teach little kids how to read music.

I think that it depends a lot on the environment that the girls are raised in, as others have said before me. Two X chromosomes doesn't make us incapable of engineering, but it changes what is generally expected of us. It's really a not-so-obvious form of sexism that stems from the beginning of time, when the men did the hunting and the women cooked supper. Even after the civil rights movement, women were still looked down upon in society. But it's changing now, with so much more pressure on kids growing up to become scientists and so much more emphasis on education for everyone (despite the influence of pop culture, which isn't making a lot of effort to promote the idea of girls growing up to be anything but nurses and teenage "rock" stars, IMHO). This is something that will change gradually over time. McDonalds has already given up on the girl/boy toys...right? Maybe with the next generation we'll see more of a change. Maybe in 20 years, the 6-year-old girls will be encouraged to play with toy drums as well as making their dolls look pretty.

[Cynette]

Originally Posted by Karibou

I think that it depends a lot on the environment that the girls are raised in, as others have said before me.

The hard part is that in the realm of parenting we have not yet figured out the fail proof combination to make children turn out the way we imagined they will.

I have two brothers. All three of us ended up in some sort of engineering career. (Why am I an engineer? Because my HS guidance counselor told me I should become one. According to my classmates, that was the only good advice he ever gave anyone.) I am married to an engineer. I have two children, a son and a daughter. As a mother and an engineer, I used all available resources to make sure that my children were exposed to science and math and technology from the get-go. My son was known as Mr. Technology by his teachers in elementary school. My daughter was a dinosaur expert at age 2. Science and math were favorite subjects. The whole world was open to them; surely they would pick technical careers!

Nope. After a semester of computer science, my son decided that a culinary career appealed to him more. My daughter? Film and Media studies. What happened? For children the message that should come out above all is "you can be anything you want to be." That's what my kids took to heart.

Did I raise an male engineer? Did I raise a female engineer? No, and no. As parents we make lots of mistakes, but honestly, I don't think I did anything overwelmingly wrong when it came to providing them with toys and experiences that would help them determine their future careers. They are who they are. I'm still keeping my fingers crossed that they turn out ok. And that when they are a little older, they will give me grandchildren and I can try to turn them into engineers.

[gvarndell]

Originally Posted by Cynette

The hard part is that in the realm of parenting we have not yet figured out the fail proof combination to make children turn out the way we imagined they will.

I was leaning toward leaving this thread alone, but this statement changed my mind.

From a parent's perspective (since we're being blamed here) we should not be about molding our children into any particular vision we have for their future, other than to prepare them to be happy, law-abiding, and self-sufficient -- basically good citizens.

I raise my daughter in a way I hope will make her feel totally empowered and entitled to dismiss and reject any notion that her gender is a limiting factor in any endeavor she might choose to undertake.

More important (to me) than whether she ultimately becomes an engineer, a lawyer, a waitress, or a lady wrestler is that she must be unflinchingly intolerant of any pressure, from any source, to only do girl stuff.

When she was little, if she wanted a Barbie, she got one.
If she wanted a chemistry set, she got one.
If she wanted a 4-wheeler, she got one.

A couple years ago, at a family gathering, my son (he was nearly 4 then) saw that one of the little girls had a pink Barbie purse.
He wanted to play with it, but she wouldn't share.
So, I got in the car, went to Walmart and bought him one -- pinker than pink and loaded up with Barbie cell phone, makeup and stuff.
He's nearly 6 now and he still has it.
This last Mother's day, the family all went to Bob Evans (about 23 of us) for brunch and Georgie 'had to' take the purse with him.
Everyone in the family knows how I feel about gender stereotypes, so nobody said a word.
No comments that I might make him gay or effeminate, which is bull.
A few nearby patrons gave him odd looks -- as if their small-minded opinions matter

Our children have an inalienable right to be whatever they have the passion and drive to be.
As an engineer who is married to an engineer, I would love for Addi to become an engineer.
But I guarantee you, if she doesn't become an engineer, it won't be because she was born female.
And if my son grows up to become a chef or a fashion designer, it won't be because I bought him a Barbie purse when he was four.

[FIRSTgirl675]

I just saw this comic yesterday on an app for my iPod. I chuckled at it too.

As this has already been stated, it shows how our society really is and how its values are still stereotypical. Now that I am in robotics, I wish that I had been able to play with more building-type of toys as a kid. I absolutely LOVE working in the shop. In fact, my rookie year on the team I was the only female in the manufacturing portion of the team, and I took pride in that.

[Katie_UPS]

Originally Posted by gvarndell

From a parent's perspective (since we're being blamed here)

No one is blaming parents (or at least not intentionally).

[gvarndell]

Originally Posted by Katie_UPS

No one is blaming parents (or at least not intentionally).

Hhmm, then I must have missed the point of the cartoon and what it explains.

[JaneYoung]

Originally Posted by gvarndell

Hhmm, then I must have missed the point of the cartoon and what it explains.

Outside influences should be considered. Children are exposed to a barrage of influences that don't start or stop with the parental role models. It is your assumption that the voice is the parent's.

It wasn't too long ago that I was told that I needed to learn to: cook, clean, iron, and sew; that those skills would be needed when I got married. When my father was dying with cancer, among his last thoughts and worries that he shared with his wife, my mother, was that she taught me everything I needed to know: cook, clean, iron, and sew. The influences and traditions of their generation were guiding them in their development of their parenting skills. Change occurred (as it occurred when they were children, only differently) bringing in opportunities for educational advancement, careers where there weren't any, options where none had been considered, and voices where there had been quiet near silence.

Part of becoming complacent with change is the laziness of assuming. Society assumes the work is done. The attitude of: change has occurred so what's all the fuss about? The fuss is about the depth of the changes that have been forged and are being made in current society's approaches and views. How much time, money, and effort is expended by the culture-shaping ever powerful media - on women who make a difference in helping our world and cultures become healthier, happier, and stronger, as opposed to how the time is spent demoralizing women, showcasing rape, violence, abuse, addiction, and shallowness? How much time is spent showing that women are inventors, engineers, rocket scientists, community advocates, and powerful role models? How many companies can showcase and brag about the talented and skilled women that they've hired - with professional credentials that will make jaws drop and eyes pop?

Society has to build thicker skills, roll up its sleeves, and get to work. Nothing should be assumed or taken for granted. There's a lot of work to do, including helping comics showcase girls and women as significant and important achievers and role models who make a difference and will continue to. Impact is awesome, especially productive and influential impact when used wisely and with purpose.

Jane

[Carolyn_Grace]

I'm fascinated by this comic, as it assumes that the roles are created because of outside influences, instead of how each child is themselves. It's taking a stance that the reason there are not as many women in engineering is because they are treated differently as children and given different toys, and while I realize this is the case in some situations still, I think that on a large scale this concept is going out of style, at least in the United States.

For example: I teach preschool, in an middle-upper class area in Michigan. My classroom is full of 4-5 year olds. We have quite the toy choices in our rooms, and we never tell the children what they can and cannot play with baised on their gender. And we never suggest to a child that they may like a specific toy, based on their gender. And yet, 90% of the time the boys play in the block area and the girls are in the art area.

Interestingly enough, the LEGOs seems to get the most play out of everything, from both boys and girls. The difference in their play: boys build rocket ships and robots and UFOs, while the girls build houses, hotels and zoos.

From my own experience: I grew up as big a "tomboy" as they come: running barefoot through the woods, jumping in puddles, building towers with scraps of wood and smashing them down to see what happens, playing baseball and kickball and football in the street. My parents gave me trucks for my birthdays along with My Little Ponies. And still, I grew up to be more of a literary person than a math person. Perhaps if I would have had a better math teacher in middle school the outcome would have been different, but maybe not.

I'm not sure we can point to any one thing that would make more girls consider engineering as a career...but FIRST is definitely a start. As another mentor on our team has said: it's okay if you graduate from our program and decide to persure a career outside science, math and technology...as long as you learned something and can handle tools and know how to figure things out without your spouse needing to handle it all for you.

[Dragon Princess]

You know, I was always given dolls as a kid. They all banded together and formed a congress, and poor Ken was banned from the doll house, and the females converted Barbies fantasy home into a work shop. They used it to fix Barbies air plane and cars.
They really should make more toys that aren't directed at just one gender, and people shouldn't force their ideals of what girls can do on children. It's really unfair.