Go to Post We may not have a robot yet, but we have Robot Potential! - Blue_Mist [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > FIRST > General Forum
CD-Media   CD-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Reply
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 2 votes, 5.00 average. Display Modes
  #16   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-06-2010, 13:28
Peter Matteson's Avatar
Peter Matteson Peter Matteson is offline
Ambitious but rubbish!
FRC #0177 (Bobcat Robotics)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Rookie Year: 2003
Location: South Windsor, CT
Posts: 1,653
Peter Matteson has a reputation beyond reputePeter Matteson has a reputation beyond reputePeter Matteson has a reputation beyond reputePeter Matteson has a reputation beyond reputePeter Matteson has a reputation beyond reputePeter Matteson has a reputation beyond reputePeter Matteson has a reputation beyond reputePeter Matteson has a reputation beyond reputePeter Matteson has a reputation beyond reputePeter Matteson has a reputation beyond reputePeter Matteson has a reputation beyond repute
Re: A True 2010 World Ranking

I just found it curious to look at the championship finalists and see how they feel out in OPR. I would say based on this the Finalist alliance was not a surprise, but the Championship alliance was if you look at the straight numbers. Looking at average ranking however the Championship alliance was clearly the highest ranked.

What does this mean? Probably nothing other than numbers don't tell the whole story, which is just something I like to remind people occasionally.

Championship Winners
67 = 4
294 = 41
177 = 37
Avg = 27

Championship Finalists
1114 = 1
469 = 3
2041= 168
Avg = 57

Galileo Champs
2056 = 2
1625 = 56
3138 = 30
Avg = 29
(EDIT: Originally had 88 from copying the total cell not the average.)

Archimedes Champs
254 = 5
233 = 22
3357 = 151
Avg = 59
__________________
2011 Championship Finalists/Archimedes Division Championships w/ 2016 & 781
2010 Championship Winners/Newton Division Champions
Thank-you 294 & 67

2009 Newton Division Champions w/ 1507 & 121
2008 Archimedes Division Champions w/ 1124 & 1024
2007 Championship Winners/Newton Division Champions w/190, 987 & 177 The Wall of Maroon
2006 Galileo Division Champions w/ 1126 & 201
www.bobcatrobotics.org
"If you can't do it with brains, it won't be done with hours." - Clarence "Kelly" Johnson

Last edited by Peter Matteson : 02-06-2010 at 07:38.
Reply With Quote
  #17   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-06-2010, 13:41
Ed Law's Avatar
Ed Law Ed Law is offline
Registered User
no team (formerly with 2834)
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Rookie Year: 2009
Location: Foster City, CA, USA
Posts: 752
Ed Law has a reputation beyond reputeEd Law has a reputation beyond reputeEd Law has a reputation beyond reputeEd Law has a reputation beyond reputeEd Law has a reputation beyond reputeEd Law has a reputation beyond reputeEd Law has a reputation beyond reputeEd Law has a reputation beyond reputeEd Law has a reputation beyond reputeEd Law has a reputation beyond reputeEd Law has a reputation beyond repute
Re: A True 2010 World Ranking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Matteson View Post
I just found it curious to look at the championship finalists and see how they feel out in OPR. I would say based on this the Finalist alliance was not a surprise, but the Championship alliance was if you look at the straight numbers. Looking at average ranking however the Championship alliance was clearly the highest ranked.

What does this mean? Probably nothing other than numbers don't tell the whole story, which is just something I like to remind people occasionally.

Championship Winners
67 = 4
294 = 41
177 = 37
Avg = 27

Championship Finalists
1114 = 1
469 = 3
2041= 168
Avg = 57

Galileo Champs
2056 = 2
1625 = 56
3138 = 30
Avg = 88

Archimedes Champs
254 = 5
233 = 22
3357 = 151
Avg = 59
I am going to sound defensive here although I am not defending my data. This is not my data so I am just defending data in general.

Numbers don't tell the whole story if you randomly pull some numbers out and manipulate them without understanding where the numbers come from. You can make the data look bad or look good depending on how you use it.

First of all, the OPR number that is published takes the whole season into account. For team 294, which had an awesome robot in Atlanta, only ranked 41 in the world because their OPR was only 1.5 at San Diego regional. They then improved their OPR to 4.0 at Los Angeles regional. On Newton field, their OPR was a whooping 7.1 and was Alliance Captain #1 and they picked team 67 with OPR of 7.3 in the first round. However for the whole season, their OPR was 3.9 which is why they were ranked 41. And team 177, a #16 pick on one of 4 fields is ranked 37 worldwide. You can't find a better alliance than this.

I am not sure what you are trying to prove when you say the championship alliance was a surprise.
__________________
Please don't call me Mr. Ed, I am not a talking horse.

Last edited by Ed Law : 01-06-2010 at 14:09.
Reply With Quote
  #18   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-06-2010, 14:26
Peter Matteson's Avatar
Peter Matteson Peter Matteson is offline
Ambitious but rubbish!
FRC #0177 (Bobcat Robotics)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Rookie Year: 2003
Location: South Windsor, CT
Posts: 1,653
Peter Matteson has a reputation beyond reputePeter Matteson has a reputation beyond reputePeter Matteson has a reputation beyond reputePeter Matteson has a reputation beyond reputePeter Matteson has a reputation beyond reputePeter Matteson has a reputation beyond reputePeter Matteson has a reputation beyond reputePeter Matteson has a reputation beyond reputePeter Matteson has a reputation beyond reputePeter Matteson has a reputation beyond reputePeter Matteson has a reputation beyond repute
Re: A True 2010 World Ranking

I was refering to whether mean was more important or having 2 of the 3 highest ranking teams. Which would you be more likely to predict win? That's all I was getting at is that most people would think that would go the other way. I wasn't trying to find deeper meaning, just to propose a question which I found interesting while looking at the data.

I also agree with you looking at data from just one event or all the season is different if you look out of context. Trending up and down can be abberations based on competition at events rather than meaningful performance changes. I believe to have very reliable data we all need to play more matches.

Ed,I'm glad you posted this, because as I intended to get across while most people thought the championship was an upset this says the winners should have been obvious. I wonder if some one with time one their hands could find an allaince with a higher average OPR or the highest combined OPR and see what that data might show.
__________________
2011 Championship Finalists/Archimedes Division Championships w/ 2016 & 781
2010 Championship Winners/Newton Division Champions
Thank-you 294 & 67

2009 Newton Division Champions w/ 1507 & 121
2008 Archimedes Division Champions w/ 1124 & 1024
2007 Championship Winners/Newton Division Champions w/190, 987 & 177 The Wall of Maroon
2006 Galileo Division Champions w/ 1126 & 201
www.bobcatrobotics.org
"If you can't do it with brains, it won't be done with hours." - Clarence "Kelly" Johnson
Reply With Quote
  #19   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-06-2010, 14:45
Ed Law's Avatar
Ed Law Ed Law is offline
Registered User
no team (formerly with 2834)
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Rookie Year: 2009
Location: Foster City, CA, USA
Posts: 752
Ed Law has a reputation beyond reputeEd Law has a reputation beyond reputeEd Law has a reputation beyond reputeEd Law has a reputation beyond reputeEd Law has a reputation beyond reputeEd Law has a reputation beyond reputeEd Law has a reputation beyond reputeEd Law has a reputation beyond reputeEd Law has a reputation beyond reputeEd Law has a reputation beyond reputeEd Law has a reputation beyond repute
Re: A True 2010 World Ranking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Matteson View Post
I was refering to whether mean was more important or having 2 of the 3 highest ranking teams. Which would you be more likely to predict win? That's all I was getting at is that most people would think that would go the other way. I wasn't trying to find deeper meaning, just to propose a question which I found interesting while looking at the data.

I also agree with you looking at data from just one event or all the season is different if you look out of context. Trending up and down can be abberations based on competition at events rather than meaningful performance changes. I believe to have very reliable data we all need to play more matches.

Ed,I'm glad you posted this, because as I intended to get across while most people thought the championship was an upset this says the winners should have been obvious. I wonder if some one with time one their hands could find an allaince with a higher average OPR or the highest combined OPR and see what that data might show.
Sorry Peter, I did not look at what team you are from. Otherwise I would not have misinterpreted your intention.

It was not an upset. My spreadsheet, based on Atlanta qualifying rounds in each division, predicted you win 17 to 16. And it was a good prediction comparing to the actual results. And yes, there was a higher combined OPR. 233/254/3357 has combined OPR of 18. However we are comparing OPR obtained from different fields so we have to be careful.
__________________
Please don't call me Mr. Ed, I am not a talking horse.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
[FTC]: 2009-2010 FTC World Championship - What do you think? Abra Cadabra IV FIRST Tech Challenge 5 29-04-2010 09:00
2010 World Championship Televised / Webcast neverquit Televised Robotics 0 14-04-2010 21:50
Ranking Tanner General Forum 74 08-03-2010 14:54
Relay Help, Keeping true, true. Pasha NI LabVIEW 1 10-01-2009 15:25
Ranking D.Bear Championship Event 4 20-04-2007 16:17


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 22:53.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi