Girls in Engineering- Comic that explains it all

[princessnatalie]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

It also reinforces gender stereotypes and in general sets the change in the culture we're all pushing for exactly backward.

Exactly.

I feel that despite all the hard work women put into FIRST and engineering, we will always be looked down upon, and its terrible.
There is more to every woman than just her looks. The girls on my team and I have cried because of the sterotypes that keep being forced on us no matter how hard we are trying to change them. Its 'jokes' like these that hurt the most, especially when they come from people in a community that is supposed to support engineering and technology in everyone.

The comic is interesting.
When I first saw it, I thought of Mary Wollstonecraft, who believed that the reason why women were constantly inferior to men was due to their lack of education. As a young child, I played with dolls. I am 15 and still play with dolls. I also grew up playing with my legos, and building stuff with my father. I sew alot, and I am a total 'girly girl'. But at the same time I want to be an engineer. I love science. The reason I do is because of my education. Outside influences at a young age obviously help shape people, however so does education. I think that even if I never built little trinkets with my father when I was four, and only played with dolls, I would still want to be an engineer. My eductation is what made me want that, not the toys I played with when I was four.

[Madison]

Originally Posted by Akash Rastogi

?

Its just a joke.


.

Oh, those crazy women!

The joke isn't funny.

I am not terribly shocked that it would be nominated for the spotlight, as the attitude it presents is as pervasive in FIRST as everywhere else.

I am baffled as to how or why it was approved and would like to see it removed immediately.

[JaneYoung]

One thing that I do when reading technical threads (and yes, NEMS read technical threads - I'll give some reasons in a minute... ) is to count the number of posts made by males and by females. If I don't know or can't tell the gender, I take a guess. Try it sometime and see what the ratios are. Do the same thing in the FIRST fora and Q&A. Excuses can be made but they will not be strong enough to hold water or to straighten/strengthen chain.

Reasons why a NEM (non-engineering mentor) reads technical threads:
- to broaden awareness and deepen understanding
- to send links to technical mentors and sub-teams in areas that I know the team is working in or thinking about
- to enjoy and deepen my respect for the engineers and technical mentors - and to also gain an appreciation for the curiosity, interest, and talent of the students

Those are just a few of the reasons that I read the threads as a NEM. As a woman who is a mentor, I read them to look at the ratio. I am also looking for engineers and technical mentors who are women. And sadly, I'm looking for jokes that cast women and girls in a light that is demeaning, degrading, rude, thoughtless, and old as the hills.

Jane

[gblake]

We can try to suppress comments like the high-maintenance one, or we can rob them of any power by embracing them, and by balancing them with a few reasons why men and chains are similar.

I, for one, prefer educating the stereotype sources by converting the stereotypes into badges of honor, instead of by castigating those who express them.

The next time a female FIRST participant is told that women are high-maintenance, I suggest that she agree, and then fulfill the stereotype by telling whoever uttered the comment to quickly fetch the tools that she needs to complete whatever useful job she is working on.

Blake
PS: Of course if the world were a black and white place, multi-dimensional conversations like this one would collapse into right and wrong and be pretty easily concluded. However, it ain't.

[Cheerleader1073]

Hey everyone, this is a good discussion! When you have time, sign up and bring it on over to the US FIRST Girls forums at www.usfirstgirls.org. (you don't have to be a girl to sign up, it's our ongoing initiative to figure out how to encourage more girls to join FIRST and be comfortable pursuing STEM majors)!

Thanks!

[Mikell Taylor]

You're absolutely right. Too many men will be distracted by women in the workplace if we let them in.

The answer, of course, is to hire exclusively women, who aren't distracted from their work by such idiocy.

[N7UJJ]

Originally Posted by davidthefat

If you have not noticed, women in the united states only just got their voting rights in the last century, not what do you think about the transition for the society to accept women in the work force instead of being in the kitchen? A LONG TIME... Look, we humans have been around for thousands of years, and 1 century is a short time compared to thousands of years. Even now, its the man that is dominant in everything, marriage: the women inherit men's family name, men are stronger, therefore can do the hard duty work. Now to a CEO who would you rather hire, a man without monthly "problems" (I say problems because emotions can hugely affect your life and your relationships with your coworkers), men are mostly left brained, which is where majority of engineering and math and logic and other stuff are processed, the women are opposite, right brain dominant. Also imagine, would the productivity of the group go down if you start hiring beautiful women into your workspace? Now, if I was that guy, I would pay attention to the women not mah work (guys, you know that will happen). Sure I think its great for women to get jobs in the engineering field, but its just not "the woman's job".


In before flamage: I am just stating my opinions, sure they might sound rude or arrogant, but I think men now days are losing the chivalry

edit: there are some girls on our team, but the strange thing is that they were all working with wood and stuff, the "manly job" of a carpenter, they made the field and stuff, all the other guys were working on the robot, and the biggest irony is that our team has a history of "big and burly" men programming and not doing hardware... and the skinny guys do the hard ware. Kinda opposite of what you think

I am overwhelmed. I think I'll let Jane answer this one.

[princessnatalie]

Originally Posted by davidthefat

If you have not noticed, women in the united states only just got their voting rights in the last century, not what do you think about the transition for the society to accept women in the work force instead of being in the kitchen? A LONG TIME... Look, we humans have been around for thousands of years, and 1 century is a short time compared to thousands of years. Even now, its the man that is dominant in everything, marriage: the women inherit men's family name, men are stronger, therefore can do the hard duty work. Now to a CEO who would you rather hire, a man without monthly "problems" (I say problems because emotions can hugely affect your life and your relationships with your coworkers), men are mostly left brained, which is where majority of engineering and math and logic and other stuff are processed, the women are opposite, right brain dominant. Also imagine, would the productivity of the group go down if you start hiring beautiful women into your workspace? Now, if I was that guy, I would pay attention to the women not mah work (guys, you know that will happen). Sure I think its great for women to get jobs in the engineering field, but its just not "the woman's job".


In before flamage: I am just stating my opinions, sure they might sound rude or arrogant, but I think men now days are losing the chivalry

edit: there are some girls on our team, but the strange thing is that they were all working with wood and stuff, the "manly job" of a carpenter, they made the field and stuff, all the other guys were working on the robot, and the biggest irony is that our team has a history of "big and burly" men programming and not doing hardware... and the skinny guys do the hard ware. Kinda opposite of what you think


edit: I find it pretty hot if the girl actually know WTF I am talking about, that is if they are attractive in the first place...

What makes engineering a mans job?
The fact that they are not driven by emotion?
The fact that they are left brained?
Women add creativity to a problem, and that is needed to solve any problem.

[davidthefat]

Hey, people take a very long time to adjust to changes, like African Americans, (no racist) just look, there are still so much hate for these wonderful people, not as much as like 50 years ago, but still present

[Mikell Taylor]

You know, David, I do want to respond to your post seriously, now that I've gotten my snark in.

You're right that it can take society a long time to change its opinion on things Society as a whole needs lots of things to happen before something becomes a cultural norm. But that doesn't mean individual people can't start thinking differently and progressively and helping this change along. In fact, it can make life a lot better for the people you interact with every day - like the women on your team.

So, since you were so willing to share with us all the reasons "society" isn't ready for women to be doing men's work, I ask you, what's preventing *you* from being okay with it, or thinking it's something perfectly normal and not unusual? What will it take for you to be able to stop saying "weird, the girls were doing the manly work" and just say "the girls were doing great work"?

[Karthik]

I've been trying to make my presence on Chief Delphi scarce, but at times like this I can't resist to toss in my two cents.

Originally Posted by davidthefat

If you have not noticed, women in the united states only just got their voting rights in the last century, not what do you think about the transition for the society to accept women in the work force instead of being in the kitchen? A LONG TIME... Look, we humans have been around for thousands of years, and 1 century is a short time compared to thousands of years. Even now, its the man that is dominant in everything, marriage: the women inherit men's family name, men are stronger, therefore can do the hard duty work. Now to a CEO who would you rather hire, a man without monthly "problems" (I say problems because emotions can hugely affect your life and your relationships with your coworkers), men are mostly left brained, which is where majority of engineering and math and logic and other stuff are processed, the women are opposite, right brain dominant. Also imagine, would the productivity of the group go down if you start hiring beautiful women into your workspace? Now, if I was that guy, I would pay attention to the women not mah work (guys, you know that will happen). Sure I think its great for women to get jobs in the engineering field, but its just not "the woman's job".


In before flamage: I am just stating my opinions, sure they might sound rude or arrogant,

No, it's less about your opinions sounding rude or arrogant, but about them sounding completely idiotic. I'm overwhelmed by the amount of ignorance shown in one post. The sad thing is, the viewpoints of the poster are shared by many, but most are at least savvy enough to keep idiocy to themselves.

I'd do a point by point dissection of the inaccuracies and ignorance of the post, but that would only serve to give this poster more attention that he desperately craves.

[davidthefat]

Originally Posted by Karthik

I've been trying to make my presence on Chief Delphi scarce, but at times like this I can't resist to toss in my two cents.



No, it's less about your opinions sounding rude or arrogant, but about them sounding completely idiotic. I'm overwhelmed by the amount of ignorance shown in one post. The sad thing is, the viewpoints of the poster are shared by many, but most are at least savvy enough to keep idiocy to themselves.

I'd do a point by point dissection of the inaccuracies and ignorance of the post, but that would only serve to give this poster more attention that he desperately craves.

Now is it really bad for not conforming to society and saying what is "politically" correct?

edit: you know what really pisses me off? calling me an idiot for expressing my ideas and opinions, I think YOU are the ignorant one here buddy. Keep more open minded will ya? Just because I do not agree with the majority of the group does not mean I am neither ignorant or an idiot, sure arrogant I agree on. But never idiot or ignorant.

[Tom Line]

My 3 boys love their dolls, and I have no problems with them playing with them.

Of course, the dolls are wearing digital camo, driving M1's and SR-71's, and sport M-5's and AK's.

Does Barbie come in Desert-Camo with a Sniper Rifle?

[Rick TYler]

Originally Posted by davidthefat

edit: you know what really pisses me off? calling me an idiot for expressing my ideas and opinions, I think YOU are the ignorant one here buddy.

In fact, Karthik did not call YOU an idiot, he expressed the incredibly wise and well-informed opinion that what you wrote was idiotic, an opinion with which I wholeheartedly concur.

[Karthik]

Originally Posted by davidthefat

Now is it really bad for not conforming to society and saying what is "politically" correct?

edit: you know what really pisses me off? calling me an idiot for expressing my ideas and opinions, I think YOU are the ignorant one here buddy. Keep more open minded will ya? Just because I do not agree with the majority of the group does not mean I am neither ignorant or an idiot, sure arrogant I agree on. But never idiot or ignorant.

First off, let's get one thing clear, I am not your buddy.

No, I think I'm being fairly open minded here. I've seen enough of posts on these forums by you that are either factually incorrect, make no sense or are just offensive. If you don't think there's something ignorant and idiotic about saying that women shouldn't be CEOs because they menstruate monthly, or that companies shouldn't hire attractive women because they distract men, then you're the one who really needs to open his mind.