Girls in Engineering- Comic that explains it all

[JamesCH95]

I have personally experienced negative effects of this "hyper encouragement" to get women into engineering. I, and a friend of mine (who is a girl) both applied to the same engineering college. I had a better academic and extra-curricular record than she did (she agrees with this) yet she got accepted and I did not. This particular college strives to maintain a 50/50 m/f ratio, but I would bet that their applicant pool was no 50/50.

Do you (the royal you, referring to all of CD) think that it's okay for more qualified men to be denied opportunities so that a college can meet its 50/50 goal? Is there a point here that I'm missing? (This is not a rhetorical question and I'm not trying to be a smart-$@#$@#$@#.)

[Mikell Taylor]

I have a sneaking suspicion I know which college you're talking about.

Whether or not it is the college you're talking about, having been on the other side of it doing interviews and discussing applicants with the admission committee, I do know that college admissions are not a straightup matter of academic records and extracurriculars -- your essays, interviews, recommendations, etc play in a lot, especially in small college communities. So for you to compare resumes side by side and say "Well, it must have been because you're a girl" may be unfair.

That said, I know "affirmative action" *does* happen in many cases, whether it's college admission or hiring or nominating Supreme Court Justices. That's a much longer conversation to have that's not just limited to gender. I also think it's a different matter than "pressuring" girls into engineering -- one thing we saw in admission at my college was that the women who applied, while fewer, were far more self-selective than the men; they had, on average, higher test scores and GPAs and had often had a good deal of extracurricular involvement in science and engineering-related activities. If there was any pressuring going on, it had happened earlier than at the college admission level.

[RMiller]

Originally Posted by JamesCH95

I have personally experienced negative effects of this "hyper encouragement" to get women into engineering. I, and a friend of mine (who is a girl) both applied to the same engineering college. I had a better academic and extra-curricular record than she did (she agrees with this) yet she got accepted and I did not. This particular college strives to maintain a 50/50 m/f ratio, but I would bet that their applicant pool was no 50/50.

Do you (the royal you, referring to all of CD) think that it's okay for more qualified men to be denied opportunities so that a college can meet its 50/50 goal? Is there a point here that I'm missing? (This is not a rhetorical question and I'm not trying to be a smart-$@#$@#$@#.)

Were essays part of the application process? What about recommendations? What about interviews?

How your numbers (GPA, test score(s), classes taken, activities) look is not always everything (I admit, for many colleges, there is a GPA, class rank, or test score that gets you in the door, but this sounds like a more selective school).

[JamesCH95]

Both of you have good points that's it's not all about grades and extracurriculars. I did, however, get into The Cooper Union, which (that year) was about the most selective school in the country, with an 8% or 9% acceptance rate. Which, come to find out, has a more "blind" admissions process than many schools.

I will add that said school was the ONLY college, out of 6 or 7, that I was rejected from, including The Cooper Union, and Rose Hulman, two of the top 5 undergraduate colleges in the country, but neither of which have near a 50/50 m/f distribution. I would be amazed if one could find any other engineering college with a 50/50 split, I've never heard of another one.

Take it for what it's worth, an example of "affirmative action" or whatever you want to call it, I have no ax to grind, just sharing observations here.

[Carlee10]

Wow. Just read through this whole thread. And I agree/disagree with bits and pieces of what people here have said; so many that I think I'll just sum up my feelings without quoting people,to save some reading time.

My mom raised us no certain way. She read to my brother and I , sang songs, played word games, and did ABC's,shapes,colors,and numbers. I could read at 3. I taught my baby brother everything I learned each day in kindergarten, and he could read chapter books by kindergrten, too. We played with what we wanted to, dolls,tucks, or both. We shared alot, and played together.

Now,we both are on multiple acdemic teams. He's a great actor, and i just like to watch theater or work backstage. We both play instuments, but at opposite sides of the scale(flute/tuba). Im on robotics, and he likes speech. He comes up with ideas and writes great stories, but i love trying ideas and talking about them or trying them. We both read, but different things. He wants to be a vet or theatre major, where I'm going to school for engineering.

So. I think the best option when it comes to engineering/women/sterotypes/sexism/feminism is not to play into it all, but to just to embrace.....smart, if that makes sense to anyone. If you encourage boys and girls to be smart and be curious and to love knowledge, then they will choose what intellectually stimulates them, whether it's desinging clothes or buildings,acting or managing a design team. I feel like I could be happy having a great engineering career, or have a family(or both!)

All in all, I think it's up to the individual girl as to whether or not she wants to be super interested in STEM subjects and/or engineering.

0.02

[smurfgirl]

Originally Posted by Mikell Taylor

...one thing we saw in admission at my college was that the women who applied, while fewer, were far more self-selective than the men; they had, on average, higher test scores and GPAs and had often had a good deal of extracurricular involvement in science and engineering-related activities...

I've often heard suggestions that admissions staff (of various colleges/universities) accepts "less qualified" women and minorities in hopes of achieving diversity, and I usually say almost exactly the same thing about self-selection. Again, also remember that the college admissions process takes a lot of things into account beyond test scores, GPAs, and extracurriculars.

Also, this may not be fully related to the topic of the thread, but I'd like to share one of my experiences that has gotten me thinking a lot about various types of diversity recently. I'm currently doing research in the "Computer, Electronics, and Mechanics" department at a French university. I'm a young, American female in a department full of older French men. Sometimes, it seems like we're very different; our different workstyles and approaches to problem solving stem from a variety of factors. We understand each other's languages to varying degrees, and speak in a bizarre mixture of French and English. I thought math was the universal language, but it turns out that while I've learned the multi-variable calculus, differential equations, and linear algebra that I need to use in my project, the French implement it completely differently. Sometimes, their approach shines a new light on a problem for me. Other times, the way I learned is more convenient. Similarly, my view on how to express or solve a particular problem may be something that never dawned on my supervisors, or vice-versa. By working together and combining our different approaches to problem-solving, we've been able to create amazing results that we never would have seen individually. It's a good reminder that we're not that different; ultimately, we're united under the common goal of progress, by our desires to discover, to create, to innovate and to improve lives.

I've had similar experiences, though to a lesser degree, in the very diverse environment at MIT during my studies thus far. Regardless of whether my peers and I "only got in because we are _____", embracing our differences has resulted in amazing things that may not have ever come to be in a homogeneous environment, and I am grateful for that. Just some food for thought.

[Renee Becker-Blau]

Interestingly enough I've referenced this CD thread & the comic twice in the past week, once for class and once at a Girl Scout Robotics event where we talk about Women in Engineering.

Thanks for the link.

Renee