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  #16   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 28-06-2010, 16:26
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Re: pic: 2011 Drive Prototype

Quote:
Originally Posted by Akash Rastogi View Post
Yes, you did not word it correctly. But, since superstructures are game-based anyway, you usually don't see many teams using pre-designed superstructures, as is. However, it is a good idea to always keep mounting methods in mind, such as the hole patterns in kit frame rails and 973's frame rails.

.

Great design work, Marcus. You definitely have some nice skills.
Thanks Akash
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Unread 28-06-2010, 16:29
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Re: pic: 2011 Drive Prototype

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Originally Posted by MWB View Post
Thanks for the the info! Well the upper-structure is 1/16in. The belly pan could be lighter, but right now it only weighs about 2lbs so if less weight is needed i will change it.

The secret CAM system does not necessarily lie in the blocks or the actual cam, it lies within the method in which the CAMS are turned... Think about it
Be wary, welding 1/8" wall to 1/16" wall can be entertaining. Are you planning on having a welder do it for you, or will a student be doing the welding? 1/16" wall is veeeeery thin, and can splatter and deform under the hands of a less experienced welder.
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Unread 28-06-2010, 16:30
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Re: pic: 2011 Drive Prototype

Also if anyone hasn't noticed, there are two different heat sinks on the CIMS. Does anyone have any comments and/or preferences.
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Unread 28-06-2010, 16:31
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Re: pic: 2011 Drive Prototype

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Originally Posted by MWB View Post
Also if anyone hasn't noticed, there are two different heat sinks on the CIMS. Does anyone have any comments and/or preferences.
I doubt you'll need much heat work on the CIM's unless you're REALLY overworking them. We never had any heat issues on any of our robots.
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Unread 28-06-2010, 16:40
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Re: pic: 2011 Drive Prototype

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Originally Posted by CraigHickman View Post
Be wary, welding 1/8" wall to 1/16" wall can be entertaining. Are you planning on having a welder do it for you, or will a student be doing the welding? 1/16" wall is veeeeery thin, and can splatter and deform under the hands of a less experienced welder.
I would agree with your warning. My team bolted our chassis last year, but in 2009 we had a fairly complex chassis of a mix between 1/16 and 1/8, wall tubing. If a professional welder is doing it you have nothing to worry about, but if he's not you have a lot to worry about. I tend to be an aluminum type of guy, but if you don't have an experienced welder, then you could go with steel, and shrink the wall sizes significantly. My team has a mentor who, among othert things, is a very good welder, and we had no problems with our frame, but we have let kids weld on prototypes and such that weren't on the real robot, and it didn't turn out so well.

I like where the model is headed, keep up the good work.
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Unread 28-06-2010, 16:42
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Re: pic: 2011 Drive Prototype

Quote:
Originally Posted by CraigHickman View Post
Be wary, welding 1/8" wall to 1/16" wall can be entertaining. Are you planning on having a welder do it for you, or will a student be doing the welding? 1/16" wall is veeeeery thin, and can splatter and deform under the hands of a less experienced welder.
well in the picture you cant see that the 1/16 tubing has a stud sticking inside of it which is welded to the 1/8. it will be held in with a pin.

I will be doing the welding, but i have done 1/16 before so it wont be too hard.
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Unread 28-06-2010, 16:45
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Re: pic: 2011 Drive Prototype

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgreco View Post
I would agree with your warning. My team bolted our chassis last year, but in 2009 we had a fairly complex chassis of a mix between 1/16 and 1/8, wall tubing. If a professional welder is doing it you have nothing to worry about, but if he's not you have a lot to worry about. I tend to be an aluminum type of guy, but if you don't have an experienced welder, then you could go with steel, and shrink the wall sizes significantly. My team has a mentor who, among othert things, is a very good welder, and we had no problems with our frame, but we have let kids weld on prototypes and such that weren't on the real robot, and it didn't turn out so well.

I like where the model is headed, keep up the good work.
if i am not able to do it, we have a mentor that is an experienced welder.
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Unread 28-06-2010, 16:50
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Re: pic: 2011 Drive Prototype

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Originally Posted by MWB View Post
Also if anyone hasn't noticed, there are two different heat sinks on the CIMS. Does anyone have any comments and/or preferences.
I wouldn't worry about heat, I can only speak from personal experiences, but my team has never come close to burning out a CIM. We have had some issues with the Denso motors though. If a CIM overheats, it will likely be a result of multiple matches, and not one tough match. My team leaves a can of Dust-Off on our cart. It's very cold and a quick spray will cool off your CIMS. It is also made for electronic devices, so it can't do damage if it gets into any part of you circuitry. You have time to cool them between matches, even in the finals, and this way you don't have to worry about one extra part on the robot (or fraction of a pound, which we all know means a lot when you go to get inspected).

Last edited by sgreco : 28-06-2010 at 16:54.
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Unread 28-06-2010, 16:52
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Re: pic: 2011 Drive Prototype

Quote:
Originally Posted by MWB View Post
well in the picture you cant see that the 1/16 tubing has a stud sticking inside of it which is welded to the 1/8. it will be held in with a pin.

I will be doing the welding, but i have done 1/16 before so it wont be too hard.
1/16th isn't bad, just remember that pure tungsten is pure cr*p and 50ar/50he shielding gas is worth its weight in gold. These two things make welding aluminum much much much easier.

Also, I swear by this guy's advice. He really knows his stuff and is super responsive to emails.

Good luck!
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Unread 28-06-2010, 17:20
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Re: pic: 2011 Drive Prototype

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Originally Posted by Chris is me View Post
There's a belly pan spanning the width of the robot. Generally such pans are used as structural members of the chassis (see 233/254's frames)
We put cross members even when using the "belly pan" design.

For the original poster: How do you intend to manufacture your gears? I'm guessing our 2007 robot was the inspiration for this design based on some of the aspects you've chosen to incorporate. If you've read much about that robot you'll have seen that everyone involved with the robot agrees that it's simply not worth the time and cost to make aluminum gears, for the ~2-2.5 lb weight savings.

Additionally we have moved away from delrin in the past two years. It flexes too much and isn't as durable as aluminum. If you have access to a waterjet it becomes very easy to make pocketed .250" aluminum gearbox plates which will be comparable in weight to .250 delrin but much more rigid. If you have access to a CNC mill, which I assume you do based on your design, it's a little more work, but still fairly simple.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MWB View Post
They slide inside of of a square cutout, ask somebody from 254, who might know more about the subject.
If you intend to make this as a prototype, you should probably understand the basics of how the design actually works. If you're just copying it and drawing it in CAD with no understanding of why things are done the way they are, then what value is that bringing to your team?
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Last edited by Cory : 28-06-2010 at 17:32.
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Unread 28-06-2010, 17:37
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Re: pic: 2011 Drive Prototype

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory View Post
We put cross members even when using the "belly pan" design.

For the original poster: How do you intend to manufacture your gears? I'm guessing our 2007 robot was the inspiration for this design based on some of the aspects you've chosen to incorporate. If you've read much about that robot you'll have seen that everyone involved with the robot agrees that it's simply not worth the time and cost to make aluminum gears, for the ~2-2.5 lb weight savings.

Additionally we have moved away from delrin in the past two years. It flexes too much and isn't as durable as aluminum. If you have access to a waterjet it becomes very easy to make pocketed .250" aluminum gearbox plates which will be comparable in weight to .250 delrin but much more rigid. If you have access to a CNC mill, which I assume you do based on your design, it's a little more work, but still fairly simple.



If you intend to make this as a prototype, you should probably understand the basics of how the design actually works. If you're just copying it and drawing it in CAD with no understanding of why things are done the way they are, then what value is that bringing to your team?
Well i just thought that it would be cool to lighten our shifters, then i saw yours and incorporated some of those features into my design.

Delrin is an easier material for us to mill because we do not have access to a vmc yet, just a prototrak machine.

I do understand how the design works, just i did not want to give him wrong information so that i do not confuse him. PM me so that i can explain.
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Last edited by MWB : 28-06-2010 at 17:44.
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Unread 28-06-2010, 18:14
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Re: pic: 2011 Drive Prototype

Why the secrecy with the tensioning method? I have to assume that most all of your design inspiration exists because of a lack of secrecy and the willingness of others to share ideas and to develop understanding.
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Unread 28-06-2010, 18:19
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Re: pic: 2011 Drive Prototype

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Originally Posted by Travis Covington View Post
Why the secrecy with the tensioning method? I have to assume that most all of your design inspiration exists because of a lack of secrecy and the willingness of others to share ideas and to develop understanding.
Well we are happy to share it during the build season, but not before. And anyways its only a prototype or a design. So we might not even end up doing the design.
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Unread 28-06-2010, 20:21
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Re: pic: 2011 Drive Prototype

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Originally Posted by MWB View Post
Also if anyone hasn't noticed, there are two different heat sinks on the CIMS. Does anyone have any comments and/or preferences.
You shouldn't need either, and if I correctly understand how the CIMs dissipate heat from what I've been told by people smarter than me, they won't make much of a difference. Your CIMs shouldn't be burning hot at the end of a 2 minute match; if they are, you probably have bigger problems with drawing tons of current and draining right through batteries.
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Unread 28-06-2010, 20:23
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Re: pic: 2011 Drive Prototype

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Originally Posted by Chris is me View Post
You shouldn't need either, and if I correctly understand how the CIMs dissipate heat from what I've been told by people smarter than me, they won't make much of a difference. Your CIMs shouldn't be burning hot at the end of a 2 minute match; if they are, you probably have bigger problems with drawing tons of current and draining right through batteries.
OK, thanks for all the help. ill remove them right now.
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