To go to Championships...or not....

[buildmaster5000]

Originally Posted by Bob Steele

The exams that need to be done during the week of May 2nd are:
For everyone's information

Monday: AM Chemistry AND Environmental Science
(if you have both you can reschedule one or the other....)

PM Psychology

Tuesday: AM Computer Science A AND Spanish (see above)

PM Art History

Wednesday AM Calculus AB and BC

PM Chinese

Thursday AM English Lit and Composition

PM Japanese AND Latin

Friday AM German AND US History

PM European History and Studio Art

Note: Early testing or testing at times other than those published by the College Board are not permitted under any circumstances.
Coordinators should order late-testing exams for students who would like to take exams that are scheduled for the same time.

Isn't AP Government usually on Monday morning?

[Bob Steele]

Originally Posted by buildmaster5000

Isn't AP Government usually on Monday morning?

US Gov is the 2nd week on Tuesday morning....Comp Gov same day afternoon


Here is the info on Government from AP 2011

Tuesday,May 10 AM United States Government and Politics

PM Comparative Government and Politics

The other data is from the AP Exam date list from College Board website

http://professionals.collegeboard.co...ates/next-year

[JaneYoung]

I'm a little surprised that the whole team hasn't been looked at during this discussion:
- the college mentors
- the high school students
- the parents who may or may not support the team but will also be stressing because of the pressures/decisions met with added pressures for their children and for the team.

If everyone is carrying the weight of stress/pressure due to the academic schedule - magnified by the competition and travel involved at Championship level - that could make for an intense season before even attending Kick Off. If not carefully monitored and planned, setting very clear priorities that support the health and safety of the team and its individuals, it could become the straw that broke the camel's back. My question would be - why go through that, compromising the tests and the team's competitive edge?

Just some thoughts.

Jane

[kjolana1124]

I've shown this topic to my team, and I have been thinking about it for a while. Finally, here are my two cents:

I only took one exam this year, APUSH. Studying for that was without a doubt one of the most stressful experiences for me ever, partially due to what I was juggling along with it. Now, I have a lot of trouble focusing when studying, and I know not every kid needs to study like I do. But I know for me, just to get that four took hours upon days to do.

Preparing for Championships was probably the other high stress point for me this year. We were preparing our first every CCA presentation, getting travel logistics done, finishing some last minute touches on our robot, scouting, you name it, there was an issue. Don't get me wrong, it is always the most fun I have throughout the entire year, but a lot goes into it.

I've thought about what I would have to do this year when it comes to putting these together, and to be honest I'm having trouble simply picturing it. I'm taking two classes and maybe three exams this year, a lot more than last year. Moreover, since Championships are in a different location this year, a lot of the more standard travel procedures our team has down will have to be relooked at, adding more pressure for that. This is just what's on my mind before we even know what the bloody game is.

I'm guilty of having the world's worst study habits, but even I am uneasy about missing study time. I love Champs more than anything else in the world, anything. But whether or not I would go personally...I really will be thinking about it, and I'm probably going to be coach next year.

Students, please don't take this lightly. I know I sound like a parent here, but I'm worried. What would be nice is if FIRST gave some more information about why they did this. I mean, they had to know about this.

[Chris is me]

So I just remembered I actually did take an AP class once... Just one class I couldn't just take at my local college.

Anyway, I don't really get why people hype the AP tests as something particularly petrifying or something that you need to spend months and months obsessing over. They're basically a final exam but you know exactly what material can be on it due to the regulated curriculum. By no means am I saying "oh just don't worry about it it's no big deal" but really, if you do well in school, you're doing well on AP. A college course it is not, despite the intent of the program.

I have always felt the AP's test-centric studying routines and general culture promoted an anti-educational method of class taking that doesn't serve you well at all in the future. Having your life, education, and knowledge revolve around a big folded piece of paper that determines whether or not you'll get to skip a class at college, maybe, is taking an AP for the wrong reasons. If you spent the year actually learning material, you'll do fine.

And on that note, I think any student mature enough to actually learn the material of a class is mature enough to make their own decisions, and doesn't need a warning from me or anyone else on the internet about what should be completely obvious to them. Similarly, the people that don't get it and cram at the end are the people that will ignore anything I suggest to them anyway.

[Akash Rastogi]

Originally Posted by kjolana1124

I'm taking two classes and maybe three exams this year, a lot more than last year. Moreover, since Championships are in a different location this year, a lot of the more standard travel procedures our team has down will have to be relooked at, adding more pressure for that..

Kelsey,

Please don't take this the wrong way, but many of the things you listed are logistical items that can and should be delegated by a student if he or she feels the need to study more. In fact, things like travel, in my opinion, should be handled more by parents/advisors/coaches anyway. Students generally don't need that kind of load on their shoulders on top of AP classes. If you are doing something critically important on the team instead of preparing for an AP exam that you know you need to prepare for, or even cutting study time in half in order to work on both, then you must reassess your priorities and focus on school. Delegate your work to students, and especially mentors who are there to help you, who don't have other academic burdens. Your career right now is considered "student," robotics is simply an "activity." Career > Activity/Hobby. For those students who take FIRST way too seriously, they may sometimes let it interfere with being a student first, something that I personally really frown upon. Take FRC and FIRST a little less seriously, its just a game. A lot of kids find their niche in FRC and become very attached to it, but sometimes some of these students really need a reality adjustment and a reminder that currently, their priority in life should really be grades, GPA's, friends, and family. There's always time later on for passions like FRC.

Again, I'm one of the people that does not find difficulty in choosing priorities, if need be. But it does have to be said that if you do know that you need to study, then simply delegate your role on the team and let your mentors know that you will need help or a break from the team during exam week and the week prior.

+$0.02 Just one insomniac's opinion.

[JamesCH95]

If you're smart enough to really place out of a college class, the AP exam will be a breeze, and, even if you could get a 4 or 5 on an AP exam, you'll still want to take the classes again in college to get an easy A and to reinforce your academic fundamentals.

Also...

FIRST championships are usually a once- or twice-in-a-lifetime event for most students, and if your team has the ability to go, you should. School is important, but it's just an AP exam, and it should not prevent your team from participating in something as exhilarating, enjoyable, and unique as a FIRST championship.

[Brandon Holley]

For some people using the AP credit in college may be the right move, however I personally am extremely grateful I chose not to. It gave me a chance to get used to a college schedule while learning material I was already familiar with. It allowed me to really get acclimated to the atmosphere of college classes. Many students I knew struggled with the first few classes and I would guess only about 40-50% of the students that started as engineers in my class freshman year graduated with me.

Like I said it may not be right for everyone, but its something to consider once your heading towards college.

EDIT: For clarity, I am referring to classes that are in your direct curriculum. So for engineers, calculus, physics, chemistry etc.

-Brando

[Rosiebotboss]

Originally Posted by Brandon Holley

For some people using the AP credit in college may be the right move, however I personally am extremely grateful I chose not to. It gave me a chance to get used to a college schedule while learning material I was already familiar with. It allowed me to really get acclimated to the atmosphere of college classes. Many students I knew struggled with the first few classes and I would guess only about 40-50% of the students that started as engineers in my class freshman year graduated with me.

Like I said it may not be right for everyone, but its something to consider once your heading towards college.

EDIT: For clarity, I am referring to classes that are in your direct curriculum. So for engineers, calculus, physics, chemistry etc.

-Brando

And then there is Neil....

[JesseK]

Originally Posted by JamesCH95

If you're smart enough to really place out of a college class, the AP exam will be a breeze, and, even if you could get a 4 or 5 on an AP exam, you'll still want to take the classes again in college to get an easy A and to reinforce your academic fundamentals.

Classes I could have done without in college as an Electrical Engineer at Georgia Tech:

• Psychology (the epitome of a chaotic cycle of conundrums that are never solved )
• U.S. History (it happened one way in high school; it still happened the same way in college)
• U.S. Government (Too centric on historical implications on current law; If I wanted to become lawyer I wouldn't have chosen EE)
• World Literature (True, I'm a terrible communicator in many respects -- but 1,000 years of historical literature in 3 months cannot fix that)
• Calculus I (was everything I learned in [non-AP] high school Calculus)

That's an entire semester of credits! Oh the things I could have done with an extra three months of time during college (perhaps studied abroad in Lorraine, France)! I would have much rather taken an AP Exam and exempted out of those classes (bear in mind that I've been really good at Math since a very young age, so YMMV).

[JamesCH95]

Originally Posted by JesseK

Classes I could have done without in college as an Electrical Engineer at Georgia Tech:

• Psychology (the epitome of a chaotic cycle of conundrums that are never solved )
• U.S. History (it happened one way in high school; it still happened the same way in college)
• U.S. Government (Too centric on historical implications on current law; If I wanted to become lawyer I wouldn't have chosen EE)
• World Literature (True, I'm a terrible communicator in many respects -- but 1,000 years of historical literature in 3 months cannot fix that)
• Calculus I (was everything I learned in [non-AP] high school Calculus)

That's an entire semester of credits! Oh the things I could have done with an extra three months of time during college (perhaps studied abroad in Lorraine, France)! I would have much rather taken an AP Exam and exempted out of those classes (bear in mind that I've been really good at Math since a very young age, so YMMV).

That sounds like a very unfortunate curriculum, clearly a repeat of HS, which was not my experience at all. I also had the fortunate circumstance of being taught Chemistry 101 and Calculus I and II by the chairs of those respective departments, who were very rigorous professors and definitely expanded outside of the AP topic coverage. My humanities classes covered subjects not typically available in HS classes, so they were at least new material, and we were allowed a choice of several topics for almost every semester, including fun topics like "the history of technology".

[JesseK]

Georgia Tech is bound by the Georgia Board of Regent's "Liberal Arts" clause, meaning that even the most technical of colleges in GA must conform to the set curricula of the State. The tradeoff is that for Georgia residents with a B or better GPA, tuition is free. Those classes only applied to the first 2 years anyways; the latter half of college was at least an order of magnitude more interesting (and difficult).

[JamesCH95]

Originally Posted by JesseK

for Georgia residents with a B or better GPA, tuition is free

That is a good reason

One of my best professors went to Georgia Tech, Scott Bondi, but I digress...

[Siri]

Originally Posted by JamesCH95

If you're smart enough to really place out of a college class, the AP exam will be a breeze, and, even if you could get a 4 or 5 on an AP exam, you'll still want to take the classes again in college to get an easy A and to reinforce your academic fundamentals.

I agree that most AP exams are breeze-like for those who should really be receiving the credit. I actually slept quite a bit during the AP Gov exam and got a 5. (Napped in Calc too, if I recall correctly.) However, I can't say I was a big fan of re-taking courses I could skip.

Like JesseK, I've found there are many more interesting opportunities in college to pursue in that time. The year's-worth of credits I came in with (and the ~8 extra I take a semester) have given me a lot of very interesting flexibility--several STEM & non-STEM minors/certs and great study abroad opportunities, even with an ROTC, robotics and band. Just something to think about.

There's a balance between how fast you want to go and how much (and well) you want to get done [s(t)=int(v(t) dt)]. It's different for everyone, but it's definitely worth considering. Then again, honors composition was one of the best college courses I've taken, so I'm pretty glad my school won't take AP credit for it. YMMV

[GaryVoshol]

Originally Posted by JamesCH95

If you're smart enough to really place out of a college class, the AP exam will be a breeze, and, even if you could get a 4 or 5 on an AP exam, you'll still want to take the classes again in college to get an easy A and to reinforce your academic fundamentals.

I understand your point, but can you afford to pay (in both money and time) to take a class when you have already received credit for it?