General Purpose Mill/Drill/Lathe Recommendations?

[taichichuan]

Greetings!

OK, so I'm trying to determine what type of machine(s) can do the best job for working with metal (in particular aluminum). I'm curious about the combination mill/drill/lathe devices like the Bolton or Shop Fox machines. But, I'm new to the machinist skill set (being a software guy myself), hence the question. If you were going to equip an FRC team with device(s) that could handle most tasks needed to build a robot, what machine(s) would you buy?

I've seen CAM plasma cutters (x/y flat-bed cutter), band saws, drill presses, water jet cutters, etc. But, what would you suggest to have a fairly well equipped shop? Let's say there was a budget of $10-15K. Unfortunately, space is an issue. Think a typical garage and you've just about got the right size.

TIA,

Mike

[Joe Ross]

Here's one such recommendation: 10K Machine Shop

[taichichuan]

Very nice. Thanks for the link! I'll take a look through it.

Mike

[taichichuan]

In looking at the parts listed from harbor freight, I can't seem to find most of them on the website. In fact, they have no listing at all for a knee mill. Are the part numbers from a catalog someplace?

TIA,

Mike

[DonRotolo]

Use their search feature, with the keyword "mill"

Also check into Grizzly, I have had some experience with one of their mills and was pleased with its performance.

Lastly, a used Bridgeport or other USA-made machine, if in good condition, will outperform a new anything at the same price. There is an active market in such tools.

[George]

Hi
# 40939-1DEH for the mill
I agree that Bridgeport rule, if you have space
grizzly is the same mill but more $$ that said it has some add on features that can be added to the HF
a plasma torch is a good add, you can build your own cnc table, makes a great summer project
have fun!
Geo.

[JamesCH95]

If my budget was up around $15k I would also get a TIG welder, possibly with a multi-process power supply, and a couple auto-tint helmets.

I have heard that Everlast makes a reasonably nice welder, the Everlast PowerPro 205 will get you an AC/DC TIG welder (steel and aluminum) and a 50A plasma torch for $1600 new, and I hear that they are negotiable.

Good luck!

[taichichuan]

Yeah, I'd really like to get a TIG welder. Unfortunately, here in the DC metro area, there really doesn't seem to be any industrial supply companies left. No vendors of milling equipment or metal working gear left either. So, in order to purchase any big equipment, you've got to trust the pictures and order it via the Internet. If I'm paying those kind of bucks for something like a mill, I'd kind of like to see it in person and have an opportunity to learn how to use it without the trial and error of trying something that any good metal work guy knows won't work.

For instance, I'd also really like to learn how to weld aluminum. There used to be welding classes run here in Fairfax County, but it appears that we've gone too upscale to continue those kinds of classes. So, if anyone in the DC metro (including Baltimore) knows of companies that sell metal working equipment and/or has classes in basic skills, I'd really appreciate hearing from you.

TIA,

Mike

[Dick Linn]

If Richmond isn't too far away, there's Dempsey & Co. selling used equipment. They get things at auctions and also sell on consignment. Buyer beware.

http://www.dempseyandco.com/

I'm sure there's some place in Baltimore that does the same.

As for welders, I would suggest sticking with the major U.S. brand, single-purpose machines. We got a used Syncrowave 250 setup with water cooler & accessories for a total investment of about $1,400.

BR Welding up in White Plains, MD (near Waldorf) might be a point of contact for a used welder or someone who can help with some pointers. Or stop by the Roberts Oxygen in Sterling and talk with the folks at the counter.

[taichichuan]

Thanks! I'll look into them.

Mike

[Dan 1038]

Mike,

My recommendation would be to hit up local manufacturing companies and see if they are getting rid of any equipment, that is a potential "free" machine shop - or at least part of it. I know that my company has donated some pretty impressive equipment to schools when plants have been upgraded or closed... Just a thought!

[taichichuan]

Hi Dan,

I'll look around. The big problem here in the DC metro is that there are very few, if any, manufacturing facilities left. The cost of land, traffic, use taxes, etc. has driven almost all of them away. There's quite a bit of high-tech and bio-medical here. So, if I wanted a wave-solder system or a pick-and-place machine, that would be doable. But, it would be of little use to the team.

We have another problem in that even our space at the high school is shared with the drama department. So, my thoughts so far have been focused on what I can do to help the team, even if that means taking half my garage and turning it into a mini-shop where we don't have to move everything out of the way after our time slot at the school. Not that I'd mind having that kind of equipment around the house, mind you. Of course, my wife might have a different opinion ;-).

Unfortunately, actual light-manufacturing has dropped below the RADAR in the local area as have the machinists that you could ask questions of. Locally, we've got lots of EEs and software guys (not that I'm complaining because I resemble that remark). Still, I'll keep looking.

Thanks,

Mike

[IKE]

A quick note on buying mills and lathes. Make sure to add tooling into the equation. Mills and lathes without chucks, bits, collets, and tool-posts tend to be cheap, but then are expensive to get functional.

[JamesCH95]

^^ An old rule of thumb is that you should spend equal amounts on tooling and the machine itself.

Also, coated carbide tooling may seem expensive compared to HSS, but it's almost always worth it because the tool will last much longer and tolerate abuse from learning students. I recall a machinist TRYING to destroy a damaged carbide end mill in a demo for students, he had to run the mill full speed, in reverse, with auto-feed on full speed, through a hunk of alloy steel. It chipped the end mill and did some heat damage, and melted some of the alloy steel

[taichichuan]

Originally Posted by JamesCH95

^^ An old rule of thumb is that you should spend equal amounts on tooling and the machine itself.

Also, coated carbide tooling may seem expensive compared to HSS, but it's almost always worth it because the tool will last much longer and tolerate abuse from learning students. I recall a machinist TRYING to destroy a damaged carbide end mill in a demo for students, he had to run the mill full speed, in reverse, with auto-feed on full speed, through a hunk of alloy steel. It chipped the end mill and did some heat damage, and melted some of the alloy steel

Yeah, I've heard that I should expect to pay as much on the tooling as the machine. As for carbide tipped, I learned that lesson with drill bits a couple of years ago. I actually accidentally melted a HSS drill bit tip trying to drill some hardened steel in a drill press. Switched to titanium and that problem was solved.