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Unread 11-08-2010, 14:47
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Al Skierkiewicz Al Skierkiewicz is offline
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Re: Remote operation of motors

Richard,
I believe the specification relates to the non-linear force as the moving part of the solenoid moves through the magnetic field. The maximum force occurs when the armature passes through the 1/8" part of the total stroke. In most cases where you are positioning a mechanism, you would not want the armature to make full travel. Instead position would be controlled by something external like an adjustable mechanical stop. You would then design the system to make use of the max force specification. I think in your case, this will not be an issue. Once the table begins to move, you don't really care if the armature bottoms out or not. If it does, that just adds to the noise. You can turn the pull solenoid upside down and attach a bar. When it pulls in, it will move the bar against the floor thereby raising the table. If you put one in each leg, and adjust them to contact the floor at different lengths, the table will have an other worldly look when it raises. I think you only want the table to move a 1/4" or so. Just enough to shock the audience but not enough to tip the table over. If the table has a nice long tablecloth, then you don't even need to hide/camouflage the solenoids.

"Bear in mind that if you used a CIM motor you would have vibrations in the 90hz range" James you will have to explain that one.
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Unread 11-08-2010, 15:28
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Re: Remote operation of motors

Got it, thanks for the explanation and tip.

So far here are the planned effects. This is theater in the round, so the audience is up close making the effects extra special. I linked a photo of the arena below...

1. Bumping table using Al's solenoid idea
2. Swinging chandler (turning motor moves the light back and forth)
3. Moving furniture (putting one piece of furniture on a practice robot that has holomic drive). It will either spin or drive around arena, not sure yet
4. A large clock with crazy spinning hands
5. Some piece of set dressing being knocked over using a solenoid
6. Fog machine inside of fireplace shooting smoke out
7. Light changes and sound effects
8. Curtains billowing into entryways at 3 and 9 o'clock

Here is a picture of the theater arena. The set was from another murder mystery we tech directed called The Unexpected Guest:
http://www.riversidecommunityplayers...ages/arena.jpg
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Unread 11-08-2010, 15:31
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Re: Remote operation of motors

Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Skierkiewicz View Post
"Bear in mind that if you used a CIM motor you would have vibrations in the 90hz range" James you will have to explain that one.
The free-speed of a CIM motor is about 5500RPM according to
http://www.firstwiki.net/index.php/CIM_motor
which is about what the motor would spin at if an eccentric mass (it's not really a cam) were mounted to it. Doing a little math shows...

5500 cycles/minute * 1 minute / 60 seconds = 91.7cycles/second [Hz]

Take off a little fudge factor for increased bearing load, and because round numbers are nice, you've got a vibration source of about 90Hz.

I will not, however, try to figure out the 3D non-linear vibration of the table
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Unread 11-08-2010, 15:44
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Re: Remote operation of motors

What?? No books spitting out of the bookcase????
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Unread 12-08-2010, 08:08
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Re: Remote operation of motors

Richard,
Are you going to be able to power stuff at the floor without having power cords in the way of audience moving in and out? Is all lighting power overhead? It looks like you still will have some challenges. We have used electronic flash parts in some of our productions in the past. I built one into a piece of driftwood for a production once, I think it was Hansel and Gretel. The witch used it for special effects. A fan, a light, some logs and some thin red gel can make a realistic looking fire that you can control from lighting as well. The fan blows the red gel around so it looks like flames while the light backlights the gel.
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Unread 12-08-2010, 10:44
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Re: Remote operation of motors

@Al
I have four plugs in the floor that I can run from the light board and I am going to have a large area rug in the center of the stage, so there will only be a little bit of power cables exposed on the floor. Planning to buy some flat power cables and paint them right into the floor design. It should hide pretty well and with plenty of gaffer tape to prevent it from being a tripping hazard.

@Mark
Falling books are an option if I have the time
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Unread 12-08-2010, 11:04
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Re: Remote operation of motors

There is another option too. Have you heard of X10 lighting products? It is a product line that transmits commands and status over house wiring using 100kHz carrier current. It gives the ability to control several (128) devices connected to the same power. A small command console can give ON/OFF control or for home, you can control with a computer interface to add security lighting. Thee are also wireless remote interfaces available.
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Unread 24-09-2010, 23:56
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Re: Remote operation of motors

Hi all, just wanted to post some of the pictures from the play. The play has been a big hit with the audiences, especially when the map cabinet chases Charles around the stage.


Here is a picture of the robot that animates the map cabinet


The seance table. The top portion of the table moves up and down on two solenoids that can be activated independently from the light board. Nice effect, just a little noisy.


Close up of the solenoid that moves the table. Lot of insulation in the table to try and absorb some of the sound from the solenoid.

Once again, thanks to everyone on the thread for your thoughts and ideas. It certainly helped us produce a successful play.
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Unread 25-09-2010, 18:40
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Re: Remote operation of motors

Very cool!
Thanks for sharing those photos.

I just got drafted to fill in for a missing stage manager and take down blocking one night next week, but there's no call for innovative set/prop design like you did.
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Unread 26-09-2010, 17:13
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Re: Remote operation of motors

What?!? Everybody trying to break into showbiz? Very nice implementation. Thanks for the pics.
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Unread 26-09-2010, 19:27
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Re: Remote operation of motors

Quote:
What?!? Everybody trying to break into showbiz?
Well, if this whole robot thing doesn't work out.....

Thanks for the compliments Mark and Al.

The biggest problem was overcoming the weight of the table which was too much for the solenoids. Resorting to moving just the very top solved that problem. The weight also prevented us from using a motor with an off-center weight making the table jump. A cam setup might have worked, but the solenoids gave us a lot of control, both when the movement happened and how much.

The robot in the map cabinet worked great. It's cool to hear the audience reaction when the cabinet chases Charles around the stage ;>
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Last edited by rsisk : 26-09-2010 at 19:31.
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Unread 27-09-2010, 08:09
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Re: Remote operation of motors

Rich,
That was more aimed at Mark's comments. But 'cmon in the water's fine...'.
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