[BB]: Buy pool noodles NOW

[Taylor]

Originally Posted by Brandon Holley

I didn't have first hand knowledge that this happened, but I certainly had a good idea it did. What would be the point of the kit bot if it couldn't play the game??

I certainly hope they test the kitbot thoroughly. Many teams (ours included) assumed the 2010 frame with the wheel pods would work as-is in gameplay; unfortunately, once 120 lbs of robot was put on the chassis, it tended to bend and flex and throw chain. It would have been nice to have been aware of that before competitions (and it was a good lesson learned not to implicitly trust out-of-the-box frames without additional reinforcements).

Originally Posted by Basel A

...Do we need a Game Hint thread *already*? It's not even September!

It doesn't matter what month it is, the answer is YES!

Originally Posted by Tom Line

Please, please, please, use the generally accepted standard for drawings. The FIRST drawing should be the materials list. The second drawing should be the complete assembly of the field, with sub-assemblies called out by balloons with sheet and assembly number. And so on. Last year's drawings were extremely difficult to wade through and I know there was a ton of confusion among teams on the whole field and the dimensions.

Hear, hear, good sir.

[Alex Cormier]

Originally Posted by Taylor

(and it was a good lesson learned not to implicitly trust out-of-the-box frames without additional reinforcements).

That is the biggest thing that I learned last year.

[GaryVoshol]

Now the FRC staff and I just have to find game pieces ...

Originally Posted by Tetraman

The more I dive into my college major, the more I dive into FIRST and the more I dive into wanting to one day be on the GDC, there are always things that really bother me when they talk about how they go about their process in designing a game - Such as finding where the game pieces are available for teams AFTER they are done designing the game basics. Wouldn't they rather make it a priority to find a massively large quantity of a game element to use and designing around that?

While I concur that the game pieces must be available, certainly they could design the game with a desired element in mind. Once the design is down, they can look for a suitable source. If a source cannot be found, then the game would have to change slightly to accomodate whatever piece is available.

Hopefully they will have better luck with availability and cost than in some past years. In fairness, we have to admit that not all the shortages we encountered were due to lack of GDC planning.

[JesseK]

Originally Posted by Tetraman

The more I dive into my college major, the more I dive into FIRST and the more I dive into wanting to one day be on the GDC, there are always things that really bother me when they talk about how they go about their process in designing a game - Such as finding where the game pieces are available for teams AFTER they are done designing the game basics. Wouldn't they rather make it a priority to find a massively large quantity of a game element to use and designing around that?

Obviously not all games require a massive amount of game elements, like last year, but then again last year had specifics to the game element. I really think there needs to be more Planning on the part of the GDC, or I hope that I've been misunderstanding what they say, which with me is always a possibility.

That said, I can't wait for the next season of FIRST!

For what it's worth, determining a supply chain before determining what the game components are is analogous to deciding between the types of bearings for an arm or a lift before determining what the robot will do in the game. There are underlying assumptions that don't always hold true, so the GDC's process may be sound 'enough' given that they have a mostly-known quantity of demand. Additionally, some companies are willing to spend a little bit of money to slightly retool a production line if they know there will be many thousands of pieces ordered. The GDC may be able to negotiate with them as well, which is not something they would want to try to do before determining what a supplier might retool for.

Personal thumbs up to the bumpers.

[dlavery]

Originally Posted by Tetraman

The more I dive into my college major, the more I dive into FIRST and the more I dive into wanting to one day be on the GDC, there are always things that really bother me when they talk about how they go about their process in designing a game - Such as finding where the game pieces are available for teams AFTER they are done designing the game basics. Wouldn't they rather make it a priority to find a massively large quantity of a game element to use and designing around that?

Obviously not all games require a massive amount of game elements, like last year, but then again last year had specifics to the game element. I really think there needs to be more Planning on the part of the GDC, or I hope that I've been misunderstanding what they say, which with me is always a possibility.

There are an awful lot of assumptions here that may not, in fact, be true.

The GDC process is one of the most over-constrained and insidious that I have ever experienced. It was not a joke when I once said that I have seen requirements statements for entire spacecraft that were less constrained and with fewer self-contradictory requirements. Complying with a statement like "pick a game piece and associated supplier, and then design the game around that" is no easier than answering the perennial question "which came first, the hamster or the toad?"

As an aside, if you really want to be on the GDC some day, may I make a suggestion? Starting out by telling the GDC that their process really bothers you and they need to do more planning, when you don't really even know what their process is, may not be the best approach.

-dave


.

[EricH]

What would have happened if:

2007 had used bicycle inner tubes or tires?

Let's suppose that instead of pool tubes (custom made) the GDC had gone with bicycle inner tubes, inflated. Supply chain is easier--any bicycle store worthy of the name should be able to get a few dozen tubes, neatly boxed, within a week or so, especially if the manufacturer in question knows there is a big demand coming in, and for a pretty decent price. Plus a typical bike shop carries quite a few tubes in stock-on-hand anyways, in a variety of sizes/valve types.

But the rack would have been much, much different, and so would have been gripper designs. Spare tubes would be plentiful, and so would repair methods.

But that isn't the route taken, and I think it made the game better. Even though FIRST teams had to deal with custom item hassles, the game overall was very good.

Object-dependent games may not help supply chain issues; supply-chain-friendly games may not help playability/team-friendliness.

But the indication that pool noodles will be needed is very timely, as it allows teams to get end-of-summer discounts as well as bulk discounts.

[Brandon Holley]

Originally Posted by EricH

But the rack would have been much, much different, and so would have been gripper designs. Spare tubes would be plentiful, and so would repair methods.

But that isn't the route taken, and I think it made the game better. Even though FIRST teams had to deal with custom item hassles, the game overall was very good.

Object-dependent games may not help supply chain issues; supply-chain-friendly games may not help playability/team-friendliness.

Look at this past year for another point of reference. A soccer ball, how simple is that. I would say these are even more readily available than a tire tube. However, as FIRST teams made up of engineers and competitive personalities, we want the EXACT ball that FIRST will be using. Yes, certainly there were some differences amongst balls, and that is why teams wanted the exact ball being used at official competitions.

The point is, it doesn't really matter what the game piece is, I feel there will always be some issue with obtaining it. Obviously there are going to be worse game piece issues than others (soccer balls vs. orbit balls). If it's not quantity, it will be price, or if its not a game piece it will be a field element. I think teams have become more adept at dealing with these issues, and I feel FIRST has made some steps to better design the games without sacrificing too much "playability".

-Brando