Let's Collaborate: FRC Electrical/Systems Troubleshooting Manual

[GGCO]

Ooooh!! That's a good one.

[joeweber]

Generally it can be solved easily though process of elimination and a little luck to make it go faster. You need to always determine if the problem is mechanical, electrical or programming.

I like to blame the programmer first but you must start with mechanical.

1. You can use another system to check that the mechanics of your system is working. Power up motors to see if they are working.
2. Check from one end to the other that all items move as they are suppose to.
3. Check and recheck that all sensors are working constantly. After three uses it may change or the speed it is actuated may not be detected by the computer randomly.
4. Check and follow every single wire and make sure all polarity is correct.
This is why it is important to label and organize your wiring. Keep the 12 volt separate from the low volt. It will make it faster to trace.
5. If all the mechanics and wiring check out than start investigating the program..

An effective manual would be difficult to make but could be helpful. There are so many variables to why something is not working.

[Joe Ross]

You might find it helpful to browse other similar threads, such as this one: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=83634

[GGCO]

Originally Posted by Joe Ross

You might find it helpful to browse other similar threads, such as this one: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=83634

Thanks for the link. Definitely helpful, but the vision I have for this thing is that it be a comprehensive guide for communication and basic electrical issues.

I'm thinking I'll start a wiki. Thoughts?

[Garret]

As part of a team plagued with such issues and as such I really like the idea of a comprehensive electronics/systems troubleshooting guide.
However I really don't think I could help much because I am rather weak (I lnow how to set up the stuff but really don't know much else) in the electronics portion in the robo; part of the reason that we have so many problems.
This sounds like a great idea.

[demosthenes2k8]

I agree, a wiki would be an excellent tool. I would definitely be willing to contribute anything I find/learn.

[JesseK]

For a 'user' manual, the key point made here is: check your connections, or swap to better connections ahead of time.

Case 1
Most of our electronics problems were solved in 2009 by these guys (we don't buy them there; that's just the first place I found a picture). Combined with the appropriate crimp tool, our electronics board is not only modular, it is incredibly easy to fix a connection and we haven't had a mysterious random shutoff since 2008. We mainly went to the mini Anderson PowerPoles when we realized that we kept loosening the wires within the default KOP crimps while changing a motor or victor. The other issue we had, even with good electronics toolbox organization, was that we would recrimp a wire with the wrong-sized connector (which caused this little guy in Atlanta 2007 -- luckily our post-match checkups caught this before it caught fire). So for a random subsystem shutdown, check the leads. It seems like an obvious solution, however finding the problem connection is sometimes VERY challenging.

Case 2
The other thing to check is your BATTERY connection. The battery wire leads should be SOLID, NOT MOVING, and COVERED. Picking up a battery by its wires will eventually deteriorate the connection and cause the described random shut off. The "fix" your team did may have been to simply replace the battery. As dumb as that may sound, we've had many matches (ranging from FTC to VEX to FRC) where a bad battery connection has been the culprit of random system-wide shutdowns; the cause could be traced back to battery mishandling.

If the drive train stops responding, the problem may be a combination of a bad battery connection combined with improperly-designed drive train or control code. For example, the drive train may shut off during long sweeping turns if the code only tells one side of the drive train to go forward, yet the motors on that side must pull an excessive amount of current to generate the torque necessary to make the robot go forward and turn (depending on wheel traction and wheel base). If the battery has a bad connection, it may only allow 30-50 amps of power; this is enough allow the drive train to go full-forward and other robotic systems to function, yet in a sweeping turn the drive train may pull more current than that connection allows is physically capable of handling. Thus the drive train stops responding. The solution here is twofold, though the first is a stop-gap measure while the second is a must-fix issue: disable long-sweeping turning in the code, and inspect/fix the battery connection.

PWM Cables
Use clear nail polish. It's non-conductive, comes of cleanly, and is easy to cleanly apply. Stick the PWM cable into the Victor/Jaguar connection, verify that it works properly, then put a small dot of clear nail polish where the black plastic PWM connector touches the plastic on the Victor/Jaguar. The FRC electronics designers finally got something correct with adding lock tabs to the digital/analog sidecars, yet IFI/Luminary Micro still miss this (IMO, critical for anything industrial) function.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Originally Posted by JesseK

PWM Cables
Use clear nail polish. It's non-conductive, comes of cleanly, and is easy to cleanly apply.

Jesse,
I have to agree on the rest of your post but I am firmly against the use of permanent or semi-permanent attachments for critical connections. Adhesives (hot glue, nail polish, super glue) should be avoided when you may need to change a defective part quickly during a finals match. I recommend that teams find a way to attach the PWM cable near the device with a tywrap. The Jaguar has some clips molded into the body for this purpose. If the cable is holding down the connector, i.e. no slack, then the connector cannot pull out. A simple cut with a small side cutter is all it takes to remove the cable. We use punched aluminum sheet to mount electrical items and the holes are perfect for this purpose.

For my two cents, learn early that a voltmeter does not tell you the condition of the battery unless it is under load. Dead or near dead batteries will cover about 50% of all electrical problems but will read 12 volts on a voltmeter with no load. If many things do not work on the robot that have before, change the battery. Don't believe that a student gave you a charged battery try another one. The Crio senses battery voltage through the jumper on the analog card for module one only. If the battery voltage falls to 5.5 volts, the Crio disables all outputs. When the battery voltage rises, the Crio will start operating again until the battery falls to 5.5 volts. Watch the drivers display to check battery voltage. The power supplies in the PD will fail at about 4.5 volts. When the 24 volt supply fails the Crio reboots, the 12 volt supply failure causes a reboot of the gaming adapter and a five volt failure causes the camera to reboot. They do not all fail at the same time, so as luck would have it, you may not have communication re-established following a power brownout.
Learn to listen to the robot, it is talking to you. LEDs will tell you a lot about the health of all the systems, sounds will tell you if something is wrong mechanically, and for what you can't see or hear, smell will tell you if something is overheating or has burned. You will never forget the smell of a burned FP motor or a bad speed controller. While we are on the subject, the LEDs on the sidecar can glow dimly with current leaking through the data connectors. Make sure that they are bright and supplied with a good external power connection. Use your voltmeter at the power in connector to insure that the sidecar has power.
For your benefit and those of your inspection team, don't hide electrical parts where they can't be seen. If we can't see the LEDs on everything, we can't help you play.

[kaliken]

I wanted to add to the battery comments. Many many of the times things were not quite working right ended up being due to the battery not being charged or good.

As Al mentioned a voltmeter does not give a state of health on the battery. In Atlanta we found out that we only had brought 4 solid batteries out of the 8 we had shipped. The only way we found out was through a load tester that 1114 gratiously let us borrow. Needless to say the first thing we bought when we got home was the exact same battery tester as 1114.

I'll list it here: its an Midtronics SCP-100 SCP 6/12
http://www.midtronics.com/home/finda...rs/scp100.aspx

[kamocat]

Joe, thanks for posting my thread. I knew I had done something like this, but had stopped because it was a lot of work to lay out clearly in flow diagrams.

A lot of problems originate from plugging things in wrong. You know that the same style of connector is used for Analog inputs, Digital inputs, Digital outputs, PWM outputs, and Relay outputs. It's not keyed, and it doesn't come labeled.
I highly reccomend getting a adhesive-tape labeler and labeling each data cable on both ends. Also, mark up your motor controllers, sensors, Digital Sidecar, and Analog Breakout so it's obvious which way to plug the cable in. (It's not fun when you fry a $60 gyro because the cable was in backwards and 5v and 0v were reversed)
Here's an example of a marked-up Jaguar: