Thoughts about the new FTC challenge?

[Bertman]

Check out FRC 2001
I think this was the last time I saw this balancing act

[Andrew Schuetze]

Originally Posted by Bertman

Check out FRC 2001
I think this was the last time I saw this balancing act

Not many FRC robots at that time had an automatic leveling routine which was likely the result of the BasicStamp based CPU and not having COTS items such as an accelerometer/tilt sensor.
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Now you can make robots that know which way is up! The HiTechnic Accelerometer / Tilt Sensor measures acceleration in three axes. It also measures tilt along each axis. <snip>This sensor will also tell you if your robot is level so you can build self-leveling robots and much more.
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[iblis432]

Originally Posted by Andrew Schuetze

Why not use a magnetic sensor in your baton manipulator

I was unaware that one existed from HiTechnic, but that sounds much easier thanks.

And that rule may be something you want to bring up with FIRST, they're bound to revise that rule if they find it.

[jamie_1930]

Originally Posted by alphadog0309

alright so i have found an issue in the rule book and i wonder if this seems right to you guys....

on pg. 10, under game definitions (2.3) the definition of Possess / Possessing a Baton reads as follows:

"A robot is said to be Possessing a Baton if any part of the Baton is in
contact with the robot."

this implies that if the robot is driving over a baton, it will count as being possessed therefore pushing a team over the maximum of 5 possessed batons, causing a 5 point penalty PER BATON IT DRIVES OVER. This is because to me it seems as if a robot that is driving over a baton therefore is in contact with the baton. Any thoughts?

Submit this question to the Q&A

[Chris is me]

Keep in mind in FTC you're standing 6 inches from the robots. You could just drive the tubes over to where you're standing and look if you can't get the magnetic sensor to work as intended.

[MWB]

Originally Posted by Andrew Schuetze

Why not use a magnetic sensor in your baton manipulator

hmmmm that may make things a little bit simpler...

[Joachim]

Robots may not "lift, grasp or hold" the rolling goals (the only baton scoring locations with high points) except during the "end game." But I think teams will want to move them before then, as they are on the opposite side of the field from the dispensers. So get ready for Q&A stuff on what is and is not "holding" the goals.

Also, the "possession" definition (touching = possession) is worse than it looks, since the penalty is 5 points per baton over the limit, per occurrence. Just drive over 5 at once (or individually) while carrying 5 and you get -25. Also, according to <SG4>, robots may not possess a baton in possession of the opposing alliance without penalty (so don't drive over one that the opponent is driving over first).

A change from last year: Safety rule <S1> now adds "another robot" to the previous years' list of field equipment that, if damaged by your robot, is grounds for (discretionary) disqualification by the referees. So defensive strategies are getting riskier, especially if your competition includes lots of robots built last week.

[PhilBot]

I personally LOVE this year's game, although I think it will drive us krazy predicting what opponents will do in autonomous.

A defense robot could make getting the doubler impossible, just by driving in front of the dispensor. (Note you HAVE to get it in auto mode).

Also, looking at the video, the center of the movable goal appears to light up if there is a mag-batton in it. This will help with end-game scoring.

Phil.

[alphadog0309]

Originally Posted by jamie_1930

Submit this question to the Q&A

The q&a isnt up yet its still only for the Hot Shot! game.... i guess ill have to wait until they set that up.....

[normalmutant]

The game will be a big challenge. We shouldn't complain about this. More rules can actually spur forth creativity in teams instead of inhibiting it. Our team can't wait to put together the field and start testing things out!

[VashonRobotics]

Originally Posted by alphadog0309

alright so i have found an issue in the rule book and i wonder if this seems right to you guys....

on pg. 10, under game definitions (2.3) the definition of Possess / Possessing a Baton reads as follows:

"A robot is said to be Possessing a Baton if any part of the Baton is in
contact with the robot."

this implies that if the robot is driving over a baton, it will count as being possessed therefore pushing a team over the maximum of 5 possessed batons, causing a 5 point penalty PER BATON IT DRIVES OVER. This is because to me it seems as if a robot that is driving over a baton therefore is in contact with the baton. Any thoughts?

I seriously doubt that any reasonable call on this rule will include any batons you drive over as being in possession. However I think the game Q&A does need to clarify this rule better.

For instance I can imagine a team making a deflector (like what a locomotive has) on the front of a robot to push batons out of the way keeping the wheels (or whatever) clear. Would that contact be considered possession? Maybe they should rule that if the batons are on the floor you can contact any number of them. Sure some teams will then push them across the floor to a stationary goal, but since bots are allowed to remove them that wouldn't matter a whole bunch.

I cannot find the game Q&A, is it open yet and if so where can I find it?

[JesseK]

Fun Fact: HiTechnic released the magnetic sensor the Monday following FTC kickoff. Reply from the Hitechnic guy on an inquiry about the stock:

This units are brand new and are in production right now. We should
hopefully start selling them within a week.

Regards,
Gus
HiTechnic Support

It's nice that they're only $23 too.

Another fun fact: Nothing in the rules says you can't launch the batons to the other side. I do not know why anyone would want to do that*, but it would definitely grab the audience's attention. This game will be boring to watch, but probably fun to play. As for design, I'll see how much sweat and tears the students put in before I say it's a good game.

*or do I????

[JesseK]

Originally Posted by PhilBot

A defense robot could make getting the doubler impossible, just by driving in front of the dispensor. (Note you HAVE to get it in auto mode).

This would have to be situational at best -- why waste autonomous just sitting there? I would expect to see it at CMP, or in a couple of regional finals. It just adds to the unpredictability of autonomous I suppose. Juxtapose that with the concept that, by practical implementation, autonomous sequences are supposed to be predictable and you have one confounding paradox .

[biojae]

Originally Posted by JesseK

This would have to be situational at best -- why waste autonomous just sitting there? I would expect to see it at CMP, or in a couple of regional finals. It just adds to the unpredictability of autonomous I suppose. Juxtapose that with the concept that, by practical implementation, autonomous sequences are supposed to be predictable and you have one confounding paradox .

But by even getting over, you still get 10 points even if there is a middle goal blocking bot. So, it is not too good of a strategy for preventing scoring.

[team F.T.C 4240]

unless you push your rolling goal in-front of it, then go where ever you want after that