Dust Collection Systems

[aepstein]

We were fortunate to obtain a set of new power tools this year, including mitre saw, table saw, drill press and circular saw. We intend to erect a dust curtain to separate the tool area from the rest of the open lab space.

I'm looking for suggestions and recommendations for a dust collection system that will further deal with sawdust and aluminum debris created by these tools.

Thanks.

_Alan

[Trent B]

Our schools wood shop has one of those massive ductwork systems.

However the metal shop uses a more simple system of using PVC pipe couplings to change the diameter of a shop vac fitting to the proper size to fit the collection fitting on the band saws, etc.

My family's personal miter saw has a little 2.5" diameter elbow pipe you put on the back of it and then attach a included bag to, with a pvc coupling (to change the diameter) you could probably hook up a shopvac and use that instead. Then you just have to train your students to be in the habit of turning them on.

Mitre and Table you may be able to have a shopvac attached to permanently, then have another sitting around for the drill press and circular saw.

[joek]

Originally Posted by Trent B

Our schools wood shop has one of those massive ductwork systems.

However the metal shop uses a more simple system of using PVC pipe couplings to change the diameter of a shop vac fitting to the proper size to fit the collection fitting on the band saws, etc.

My family's personal miter saw has a little 2.5" diameter elbow pipe you put on the back of it and then attach a included bag to, with a pvc coupling (to change the diameter) you could probably hook up a shopvac and use that instead. Then you just have to train your students to be in the habit of turning them on.

Mitre and Table you may be able to have a shopvac attached to permanently, then have another sitting around for the drill press and circular saw.

drill presses usually don't have any sort of dust collectors (as you really don't need them), but as for the other 3, you might want to use a centralized shopvac hooked up too all 3 others, and you might want to just vacuum up the metal or wood shavings from the drill press at the end of each day, but you don't need a dust collector for it.

[Trent B]

Yea, that was my thoughts on the drill press, at most you might need to brush the shavings off to the side so your piece sits on the drill press straight but other than that they don't make a ton of dust.

[kramarczyk]

Dust collection can get serious if you are going to spend a lot of time in the shop. Dust is not just a nuisance, it can also be a health hazard. You can also create a safety hazard by mixing metal and wood ships. (Think about hot metal chips landing in a pile of dry sawdust.) There's a pretty good book available from Amazon on the subject.
http://www.amazon.com/Woodshop-Dust-.../dp/156158116X

[Chris Hibner]

When I saw the title to this thread I thought you were talking about some of our old robots. Then I realized you were talking about something else.

[Peter Matteson]

I have had some experience setting one of these up.

http://www.grizzly.com/products/2HP-...llector/G0548Z

The bonus is you can get everything you need from them. All though when my father and I setup this system we used HVAC ducts. Also I reccomend getting the seperator to go with it to reduce wear and tear on the bag and the blower itself.

Chris,
Our dust collection system of that variety is getting so big we don't have room for any more robots is storage.

[Dick Linn]

Search on "Thien Baffle Separator" and "Pentz Cyclone". It could make a fun off-season project.

http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/index.cfm

http://www.cgallery.com/jpthien/cy.htm

http://forum.canadianwoodworking.com...ad.php?t=33119

[Ether]

Originally Posted by kramarczyk

Dust collection can get serious if you are going to spend a lot of time in the shop. Dust is not just a nuisance, it can also be a health hazard.

I've seen teams use shop air to clean drill presses, milling machines, band saws, and bench grinders. This always concerned me as a lung hazard, but I don't have any authoritative info. Does any have any links they could post ?

[joek]

dust collection really isn't that big of an issue if you clean up at the end of each day. it only is really necessary for planers, unless you are using a large wood shop. the only tool other than planers that really need collectors are sanders and maybe band saws.

[kramarczyk]

Originally Posted by Ether

I've seen teams use shop air to clean drill presses, milling machines, band saws, and bench grinders. This always concerned me as a lung hazard, but I don't have any authoritative info. Does any have any links they could post ?

I was speaking more to the wood dust as a health hazard as I don't typically speak of metal by products as dust. According OSHA... http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/wooddust/index.html

Wood dust becomes a potential health problem when wood particles from processes such as sanding and cutting become airborne. Breathing these particles may cause allergic respiratory symptoms, mucosal and non-allergic respiratory symptoms, and cancer.

Additionally, certain engineered wood products contain additional hazards. An example is MDF and plywood both contain formaldehyde. http://www.flakeboard.com/msds/Flake...r_MDF_MSDS.pdf
http://www.timberproducts.com/.docs/..._MSDS_2005.pdf

As far as using shop air to clean metal cutting tools, I have always been told that this created a airborne eye hazard and that a brush and pan were a better practice. In my experience, metal chips don't hang in the air as readily as wood does. I doubt putting cutting fluid airborne as a mist does ones lungs any favors though. OSHA is a little more vague here... http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/metalworkingfluids/index.html

Your milage will of course vary based upon the amount of time and intensity of exposure. Personally I don't spend a lot of time worried about it, but if I am going to cut MDF in my garage with the door closed (winter) then I do put on a resperator.

[JamesCH95]

Originally Posted by aepstein

We were fortunate to obtain a set of new power tools this year, including mitre saw, table saw, drill press and circular saw. We intend to erect a dust curtain to separate the tool area from the rest of the open lab space.

I'm looking for suggestions and recommendations for a dust collection system that will further deal with sawdust and aluminum debris created by these tools.

Thanks.

_Alan

I would hit up your local woodworking store, when my Dad set up his wood working shop he went to Woodworker's Warehouse and they set him up well. Use dust collection on your mitre, table, and circ saws, bench grinders, abrasive chop saws, etc. You won't need it on your drill press (tool speed is too low) and I would especially avoid conventional dust collection if you ever use cutting oil on any machines (drill press, mill, lathe, etc).

Wood dust presents an explosion hazard, and metal dust presents a bad electrical hazard (and maybe an explosion hazard as well). In either even it's not good to inhale solid particles of anything.

http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/wooddust/index.html
http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owad...S&p_id =27413


Edit: kramarczyk beat me to it... freakin' ninja post.

[Dick Linn]

There is some hazard info on the Bill Pentz site:

http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyc...ndex.cfm#Risks

[Greg Needel]

This is one of those topics I could write quite a bit on, as I designed woodworking dust collection systems for Black & Decker (delta machinery). Basically there are 3 main factors (and a bunch of smaller ones) that determine how effectively a system will work.

1) Air volume over time (typically called CFM even though that is just units). This is how much volume of air the machine can move. While in most cases more is better there are some exceptions and a whole lot of phewy out there hidden by marketing.


2)static pressure (inches of water) - this is basically how much force the vacuum can lift. Google it for more info.

3) Filtration - The particle size that the output filter will let through during opperation.


A shop vac is not a dust collector, actually they are not even in the same ball park, as a typically home depot unit will give you ~60CFM and 10-15 inches of water. While a good woodworking dust collector is at least 1200 CFM and 1-2 inches of water. The major difference being that the debris in a dust collector flows through the impeller, while in a shop vac it does not these differences are important to understand as one should not be substituted for the other.


When selecting a dust collector you need to decide early if you want a mobile unit which you move to each machine as needed or a semi-permanent one which the dust collector is stationary and you run hard piping to each machine. As with all decisions in life there are advantages and disadvantages to each. A few factors which you should think about are how the space is going to be used. Is the shop going to be arranged in the way it is now for a long time? Are you willing to invest in a larger capacity dust collector for a fixed plumed unit? (which you will need for losses due to the pipe/hoses) Do the people using the shop have the discipline to move/attach a mobile unit to every machine before it gets used? etc

The major things you need to figure out is how your space will be used and that will decide alot of this for you. Know that not all tools are created equal, as my 5HP table saw requires a larger dust collection system than my chop saw. The longer you run the hose from the dust collection unit to the tool the higher the drop off in CFM you will see. When you read that a dust collector is 1200 or 1500 CFM that is rated at the tool with no hose connected to it; add 10 ft of hose to the unit and you will likely be ~50% of the maximum. The output filter is probably the most important part of the whole system. Many companies will sell a unit cheap because it has a bad filter on it. Dust collectors will spec the "micron size rating" of their filters the lower the number the better because it will catch the smallest particles which are also the ones that pose significant health risks. The down side of things is that the higher filtration you get the more likely your filter will get clogged and the performance of the whole unit will suffer. I would recommend a 1-3micron canister filter because they are easy to clean and provide sufficient filtration.

In my home wood shop I use a mobile unit (delta 50-760) which I can connect to each machine before I use it, I do this because I know the performance will be better than if I plumb my shop. Also I have a 1micron canister filter on it.




A couple of side notes: Cyclones as mentioned above with the bill pentz website are good, but a cyclone is just a separator. Basically what it does is allows particles to drop out of the airflow before reaching the filter, providing a longer time in between when you need to clean your filters. Because of this if you have a cyclone it will typically be a lower initial CFM but more consistent over the use of the machine.

As for brands, I worked on units made under the brand "delta machinery" one thing I can share is that many of the units come out of the same factories in Asia, with minor and major differences and you should do your research online before buying as not all machines are created equally even under the same brands. There are plenty of web forums that specifically discuss each unit.

Any further questions don't hesitate to ask.

Greg

[aepstein]

Thanks to everyone for responding. This is really helpful!

_Alan