Low cost Netbooks for scouting

[Dale]

This year we're planning to continue refining our competitive analysis system using a web-based platform. Essentially we'll have six people with computers in the stands, each gathering data on an individual team for a given match. That data will be captured using a web front-end and database backend on a server back at our school. The machines in the stands would use hard ethernet connections to a router with a 3G connection to the web (to avoid the FIRST rules against WiFi.) In the pits we'd use another computer with a 3G connection to run reports off this data before each match.

Now the question. We're looking for six very low cost computers with 10 hr. battery life that have hard ethernet connections. There are lots of $299 netbooks that might fit the bill. Does anyone have experience with these to know if they really do last 10 hrs? Are there any other machines out there with hard ethernet connections and 10hr battery life that aren't Windows netbooks at much below this price point? We don't need hard drives or Windows, all these have to do is run a browser.

These computers need full keyboards because these scouting folks will also be taking notes on each team. Solutions like NXT bricks or Wii remotes aren't what we're looking for.

We may end up using an inverter and a bunch of batteries to power normal laptops but that results in a lot of wires running everywhere in the stands. Some of the venues we attend don't allow extension cords in the stands.

[Chris is me]

You can squeeze 10 hours out of them, usually not while running 3G and a bright screen backlight though. You can definitely get through half a day though, and charge them at lunch.

Personally I would recommend Wii remotes + a piece of paper for the handwritten notes, but this system saves you some typing time later so if you can afford it there are definitely advantages (it's also tons easier to use)

The inverter + FRC battery trick also works quite well and kept scouting going on all day Friday for my team in Connecticut.

[davidthefat]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16834220681

$299 each, says it has 11+ hours of Battery life, has almost the same specs as other competitors but it has longer battery life

I might suggest installing XP or linux on it though

[Robototes2412]

I suggest using zipit messengers with openzipit running

It is a lot of work, but the devices have wi-fi and are only $50 each

[TomH]

Battery life will ultimately depend on how much you are asking from the computer. Now the 2 things that will kill battery life is the screen brightness (the brighter, the shorter) and Wifi. Now newer laptops and netbooks are more efficient with wifi, but I would not expect 10 hours out of a battery, mostly because those times are from idling systems. My laptop usually will say 4 hours when I am on battery, surfing the internet and running other small programs, although Dell says it can go up to 8. My point is that maybe for the first few uses, you could squeeze out maybe 10 if you disable anything unnecessary, but don't expect that it will last all day at a comptitetion. I'd recommend you charge them when you can (like at lunch). And for any specific models, I really have nothing that I can recommend, but if you can get something with a decent battery life, and take half of it, and it can still do (like the one above, and if 5.5 is still good, then consider it), but take a look at the specs, they can help.

[Hawiian Cadder]

we only have 3 laptops which we take to competition and do everything on, one is full time programing, and the other two trade off scouting while the batteries charge. both computers also have solid works and the robot models on.

[Dale]

We've thought about zipit messengers and the iPod Touch but with the no WiFi in the stands rule many of these fall by the wayside. We're also looking for a full, if small, keyboard to capture subjective notes.

[MrForbes]

We have a few Acer Aspire Ones in our family, and one of the 6 cell batteries, it lasts a while. Not ten hours...but scouting doesn't really happen for ten hours. You can charge batteries during lunch break.

Might go shopping for batteries first, maybe whichever sub $300 netbook has inexpensive high capacity batteries available would be a good choice.

We had fun with the DS scouting thing.

[Brandon Holley]

You will not get 10 hours of battery life out of any current netbook i've seen on the market. They advertise up to 10 hours on many of them, but from my experience, this is not a realistic number for actually using the computer in that time. You will get good battery life, I'm guessing ~6 hours worth.

That being said others have suggested charging them at lunch which should get you through the rest of the afternoon. There is always the alternative of buying extra batteries, but your costs may begin to run up at that point.


-Brando

[JesseK]

If you get 10 productive runtime hours from a netbook running wireless, you should post it here so we can shout it to the world and rejoice.

In all seriousness though, the longevity of the netbooks will degrade over time just like it does with all batteries. This year and next year the netbooks may be great, but in 3-4 years you'll probably be down to 1-2 hours of battery life max. If you can afford 6 netbooks, I'd recommend buying 3 netbooks and some spare batteries and an extra charger or two. It isn't a large leap in expectations to count the beans on two robots instead of one. Like a fine wine, if you put the spare batteries in storage for a couple of years you will reap the rewards when you finally use them, netting you more longevity of scouting with those netbooks rather than purchasing new (or dealing with lack of satisfaction) long-term.

[l0jec]

Since you mentioned that you will be using a web front-end for the scouting input, have you considered using personal devices such as smartphones rather than purchasing dedicated devices such as netbooks? This may also allow you to bypass the ethernet to 3g router setup you described.
While a good Android phone may cost more than a $300 netbook new, you may find that many of your students interested in scouting already have an Android or iPhone. The only upfront cost may be creating a mobi type page in your web front-end to render nicely for the devices if the current one is too cumbersome.

[r2davis2]

I would be very wary of battery life. 294 did something like this at champs this year, and even using very fancy laptops people brought from home, we had to recharge most of the computers at least twice a day.

[Dale]

If we had to recharge the netbooks at lunch that would be fine, of course. I was just hoping to avoid it for the first couple of years until the batteries age. Since we won't be able to use WiFi per the FIRST rules, just hard-wired ethernet, and have minimal hard drive use, maybe we'll get through a day in the beginning. We'll see.

Depending on the game, sharing one netbook between two people might be a dandy idea. Students could capture the objective data on scratch paper and then hand the netbook back and forth to enter that and subjective notes between matches. We're trying for live data here so that by the time the next match is run, we've enetered the previous one.

Certainly some students will have iPhones and the like, it's just I don't want our scouting team to be restricted to only those students. They all have laptops which they can bring (our school requires them) it's just some of their battery times are measured in minutes, not hours.

[Brandon Holley]

Originally Posted by Dale

Depending on the game, sharing one netbook between two people might be a dandy idea. Students could capture the objective data on scratch paper and then hand the netbook back and forth to enter that and subjective notes between matches. We're trying for live data here so that by the time the next match is run, we've enetered the previous one.

At that point just designate a 7th person with a single laptop to punch all the data of the previous match in as the current match is going on. Yes you will be one match behind as far as "live" data goes, but it could be a worthwhile sacrifice.

Just an idea.

[remulasce]

Why are you using so much technology? Is it necessary to provide real-time scouting to the people back home? I don't think anybody will know the competition better than the people in the stands, and matches are spaced out enough that the scouts will always have enough time to put something together for the driveteam. We simply made an Excel spreadsheet to organize our six scouts' data. Then I made a GUI to output data to a text file to copy and paste into the master sheet. The benefits were that it was easy, and even though we didn't have enough laptops, we could use a PDA which had Excel on it to do the same job.

But on topic: We had 5 laptops of various sizes and a PDA, and none of them survived an entire day. We had an extension cord with 3 plugs at the end, and we had to regularly switch which devices got to charge. I would never rely on batteries to last the entire day, no matter what kind of netbook you get, but there is always power to be found in the arena. Bring long extension cords.