Low cost Netbooks for scouting

[TomH]

Is it a better idea to just record every match with a single camera, and keep some notes, and use that instead? I think after a few batteries and memory cards, it will be a lot cheaper then a bunch of netbooks, and probably more reliable, as laptops have hard drives, and say if someone drops it, then its gone, but a camera may break, but usually the memory doesn't. And overall, paper written note don't break, although they can be damaged. And again, almost any netbook out there can't last you 10 hours, and I expect more like 5. There are many options out there, just it is really limited to what your spending limit is.

[Dale]

The notion of all this is to provide information to the drive team about their upcoming qualifying match, not just to be informed durring alliance selection. It's especially handy at the Championships or at our home regional (Oregon) where the pits are a long way from the stands.

[r2davis2]

Originally Posted by Dale

The notion of all this is to provide information to the drive team about their upcoming qualifying match, not just to be informed durring alliance selection.

At champs this year we tried the same thing, but instead of sending it back to the pits via 3G(a rather expensive solution), we simply filled out a page about the match and handed it to the drive coach before each match. While I do understand the benefits of so much technology, I just want to warn you of the many pitfalls we encountered. If you are still going along with this method, whether you stick with 3G or not, I would suggests bringing copious amounts of extension cord and getting seats as early as possible in order to find seats near an outlet.

[TomH]

Now this is what I think was brought up earlier, that depending on the venue, you might not be able to get and extension cords to your seats, even if you get seats that are near an outlet. It ultimately depends on the venue for power in the stands, and FIRST might not allow it.

Lets throw some numbers out to discuss. Usually 8am is is when things start to settle in for regional, then matches starting after 9am. They will last until 12-1pm, so from 8 to 1, that is 5 hours, so at the max, hope for about 5 hours of battery, maybe more realistically around 4ish. Then about a 30 minute charge. Depending on the computer, the power readily available, etc. Hopefully you will be able to get a little more then a half hour charge in, and then for the stretch. Depending on the regional and how things are moving, I'd expect everything to be all over around 5pm. So from 12:30-5pm is 4.5 hours at the max, and if lunch is put off for a bit, maybe 3.5-4 hours. So you need a computer that can go for anywhere from about 7-9 hours (give or take), with a midday charge. Now unfortunately, this is where I have no experience, is in how fast netbooks charge and discharge. I would say, like I did above, that it depends on the computer and the power readily available. My one recommendation is to go for something that has a large battery, and a decent discharge time (about half the posted time in the specs, maybe a bit more if all visual effects are turned down). But again, most of the battery time is going to be determined my the battery, processor, processes, ram, etc.

[gblake]

... extension cord ...

Whether they are stretched for 100 feet or 5 feet, extension cords are a tripping hazard if they cross any path where people walk. Particularly if another urgent situtaion has people moving in a hurry, or if many people are moving at the same time.

Don't create hazards.

Install cords correctly and with the permission of the event organizer, or use paper, or only recharge so close the outlet that no hazard is created. The choice is simple and using an extension cord is not the default answer.

Blake

[Brandon Holley]

Originally Posted by gblake

Whether they are stretched for 100 feet or 5 feet, extension cords are a tripping hazard if they cross any path where people walk. Particularly if another urgent situtaion has people moving in a hurry, or if many people are moving at the same time.

Don't create hazards.

Install cords correctly and with the permission of the event organizer, or use paper, or only recharge so close the outlet that no hazard is created. The choice is simple and using an extension cord is not the default answer.

Blake

Reiterating this with a slightly different message...

Some venues do not allow FIRST teams to use the electrical outlets outside of the pits. It depends on the agreement FIRST has with that particular venue. I imagine charging several hundred laptops and miscellaneous other gadgets can be a bit expensive for the arena.





As for the issue of laptops for scouting, I think thats for each team to decide. I don't think you want a system that relies on several systems to work properly in order for information to pass to the drivers.

In Atlanta this past year we utilized the standard paper scouting sheets along with 1 laptop. The laptop would have the "stats" of the teams added to it as the day went on. When it came time for a match for our team, the scouts would create a pdf which had the stats of each of our opponents/partners in addition to typed in notes regarding the teams. Using a tethered 3G phone, they would email this pdf to my iPhone. I could then open the pdf in the pits and have all the information we needed.

This system worked pretty well and allowed us to operate without runners by just text messaging and emailing back and forth.

-Brando

[Mike AA]

May I suggest one or a couple of these items for your battery concern LINK. I own a few versions which can run laptops for many hours, if you get the larger XPower 1500, one unit can run all the laptops you want and supply power at other events or locations. No cords across lots of steps and convenient.

You could also easily hook an inverter to a robot battery to run 1 or 2 laptops until the robot battery dies, then charge that on lunch in addition to the laptops.

[Doug G]

I can't emphasize enough the absolute ease we have had doing the Nintendo DS scouting. We just did CalGames last weekend and had no problem finding students with these (some just donate them to the team because they've outgrown them). Their batteries usually last most of the day (if not just bring backups and chargers). The first hour before matches start, we collect the match list data and pictures of the robots and load them into the memory cards. Set a scouting schedule where every scout does 10 matches on and then 10 matches off. (requires ~ 12 scouts). Then at the end of the day, it took about 30 minutes to download all the scout data off the memory cards and upload them into our database on a laptop, just in time for alliance selection.

We've toyed around with moving out to a different platform like iTouch, android app, etc.. But we come back to using the DS because of how accessible they are and easy to work with. Plus it gives the non-robot programmers something fun and valuable to do.

Sorry for getting off on a tangent - but I watch other teams scout using laptops and while some are serious about it, others just play video games on them.

[MrForbes]

and the DS lite costs $130 at walmart

[Chickenonastick]

The Acer Aspire One is a reliable netbook for most tasks, and runs around 6 hrs. of battery life.

You could always just buy a spare battery to take with you to the regionals... I'd say that's a whole [robotics] day right there.

[thelittlesister]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

You can squeeze 10 hours out of them, usually not while running 3G and a bright screen backlight though. You can definitely get through half a day though, and charge them at lunch.

Personally I would recommend Wii remotes + a piece of paper for the handwritten notes, but this system saves you some typing time later so if you can afford it there are definitely advantages (it's also tons easier to use)

The inverter + FRC battery trick also works quite well and kept scouting going on all day Friday for my team in Connecticut.

What do mean Wii remotes? What do you use them for?

[MrForbes]

wii scouting

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=75784

It's an Arizona thing....we seem to dig using gaming systems for scouting.

[Ray Gitchell]

We have the same issues and have used paper forms with data entry with the help of inverters in the stands.
But, you may wish to take another look at the Zipit this year. Hak5 has some shows on installing Linux on it. Since it has a SD card slot, you could save data to a card rather than sending over wifi during the matches. The zipit price is dropping fast, some under $10 over the web.
Good suggestions,
Thanks, RayG

[Chris is me]

Something I'm looking into for next year depending on the game is a Scantron sheet. Automatic data entry, plus it's not rocket science to use if you keep a tally during the match and then bubble in the right field.

[Dale]

The Zipit idea is pretty cool, especially if I can interest some students in writing a dedicated Linux program for it. Because of the no-WiFi in the stands rule, we'd be stuck swapping SD cards around but that's not a deal killer. Great out of the box idea.