PLEASE VOTE

[Wayne Doenges]

Anyone who didn't vote has no right to complain. I voted.

[EricH]

Just because you're a few states away during an election is no excuse not to vote.

I voted, so I can complain all I want to... but maybe I don't exactly want to!

[Molten]

I didn't vote. I was ill-prepared and didn't do my research.

To all that were in my position: I hope you didn't vote but are planning to research and vote next time.

Does this country really need more people voting so they have the right to complain? Either that, or they are voting strictly for a party without truly knowing the candidate. In both situations(even if you vote for the same person I do), I'd rather you not vote. Voting blindly is worse than not voting at all.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Molten

Does this country really need more people voting so they have the right to complain?

No. I was responding to Wayne's comment.

Voting straight ticket (or straight yes, or straight no) is not the way to go either, unless you've done your research. My research was a bit last-minute, so next time will be a bit less last-minute.

[IndySam]

The better solution is to pay attention all the time. That way you know what your government is up too and are ready to take action when necessary.

To many Americans go through life asleep.

[Molten]

Originally Posted by EricH

No. I was responding to Wayne's comment.

I wasn't trying to single anyone out. I just get tired of the "everyone should vote" mentality. Some people(those too lazy to study it) should not vote. I was one of these people this time. I wasn't last time though, and don't plan to be next time.

[kstl99]

Only on Chief Delphi can there be 8 posts on voting with noone giving their political views. This was extremely hard for me as I have very strong and one sided views, but I know this is a non-political forum. Its too bad that there is no forum that I know of to discuss politics the way we discuss issues here, with reasoned arguments and all trying to give honest respectful opinions even when we dissagree.

IndySam, I agree with you 100%. Please pay attention!

[JaneYoung]

Originally Posted by kstl99

Only on Chief Delphi can there be 8 posts on voting with noone giving their political views. This was extremely hard for me as I have very strong and one sided views, but I know this is a non-political forum. Its too bad that there is no forum that I know of to discuss politics the way we discuss issues here, with reasoned arguments and all trying to give honest respectful opinions even when we dissagree.

It hasn't been and isn't always like this. Searches will turn up threads that show the opinionated and intolerant sides that can erupt. The threads will also show posts by the folks that run CD reminding us that ChiefDelphi was created by an FRC team, providing opportunities for networking and shared interests in robotics/FIRST. There have also been threads created discussing the purpose/impact of Chit Chat, presenting the pros and cons. The history of discussions and the appropriate use of CD is interesting to read and think about.

It is also always interesting to note who does not post in threads and to think about what those reasons could be. Since the days that I read but didn't post in ChiefDelphi, I have always been aware of that aspect of this marvelous fora adventure.

Jane

[davidthefat]

Well Im not of age yet to vote (18 in 1 year and 2 months) but I have a serious question about voting. How/where do I get the real information about the proposed propositions and cadidates? All you hear on TV and on line is bottom line propaganda. Well you never really know a candidates' real motives but propositions must be easier to interprete. I personally did not like elections; there are too much "mud slinging". I do not know if it is really democracy at work in these elections, but more like "who can appeal to the public better through the media".

[Joe Ross]

Originally Posted by davidthefat

Well Im not of age yet to vote (18 in 1 year and 2 months) but I have a serious question about voting. How/where do I get the real information about the proposed propositions and cadidates? All you hear on TV and on line is bottom line propaganda. Well you never really know a candidates' real motives but propositions must be easier to interprete. I personally did not like elections; there are too much "mud slinging". I do not know if it is really democracy at work in these elections, but more like "who can appeal to the public better through the media".

In California, the Secretary of State publishes a voter information guide for the propositions. This is prepared by multiple people, the Secretary of State, the Attorney General, and Legislative Analysts. It is mailed to every household with a person who is registered to vote.

For each proposition, it includes a summary of the proposition, history related to issue that the proposition covers, potential impacts of the proposition, arguments for and against the proposition, and the text of the proposition. I find that taking the time to slog through the legalese in the proposition text is often very valuable. One thing to look for in the impacts section is the assumptions that are explicitly and implicitly made, and whether they make sense.

[KarenH]

Originally Posted by davidthefat

Well Im not of age yet to vote (18 in 1 year and 2 months) but I have a serious question about voting. How/where do I get the real information about the proposed propositions and cadidates? All you hear on TV and on line is bottom line propaganda. Well you never really know a candidates' real motives but propositions must be easier to interprete. I personally did not like elections; there are too much "mud slinging". I do not know if it is really democracy at work in these elections, but more like "who can appeal to the public better through the media".

The thing to do is find people with similar views and find out what they know. The ads and most campaign mailers are virtually worthless, because the candidates and proposition supporters pay to be included in them. The only thing you can learn from mailers is who has the money to pay for mailers. I learned this from reading the fine print on the mailers.

My own personal example (and this will NOT apply to everyone, of course!) is that I am a Christian and am conservative in many (but not all) of my political views. There is a man in our area named Craig Huey who does seminars and has a website, electionforum.org. He rates the candidates--even the judges--and makes recommendations on candidates and ballot propositions. He also explains his rating system, based on Christian and conservative values. His website is pretty simple, but some of his in-person seminars can get pretty detailed. For example, he explained his reservations about Meg Whitman.

If you are liberal, socialist, or some other viewpoint than that of Craig Huey, you could look at his website to figure out who you would NOT vote for. But it would be better if you found groups--PACs, interest groups, etc., who have a similar viewpoint to yours. You may also find yourself involved with a group that has a stake in the outcome of certain elections. AAA, AARP, labor unions, business associations and others sometimes publish opinions about these things. There are people who track the voting records of elected officials, and people who review judges' decisions.

I agree with Joe Ross that the California ballot pamphlet is a good resource. I always read the summary information. Usually that doesn't help me decide, so I read the legislative analysis. Often I still can't decide, so I read the arguments for and against. Beware of those, however--the people writing those are never objective, and often they twist the facts, and sometimes outright lie. But they may make a point I haven't considered. As a last resort, I will read the text. If I can't understand it, I vote NO. Sometimes the text reveals crazy stuff, like the transportation bond measure that included funding for an art museum in the Bay Area.

This last election, I was astonished to find that Dianne Feinstein was one of the two signers of the argument AGAINST Prop. 19, the marijuana initiative. I have trouble believing she is against legalization of pot, but she had an interesting argument against the ballot measure. I encouraged everyone to read her argument--not just because I was so amazed, but also as a ploy to get people to actually READ the ballot pamphlet!

My point is, don't give up. There are sources of information out there. You will be able to find them, if you look. And remember that everyone in the political process is human, which means you will find imperfections and absurdities just about everywhere.

[kstl99]

Originally Posted by davidthefat

Well Im not of age yet to vote (18 in 1 year and 2 months) but I have a serious question about voting. How/where do I get the real information about the proposed propositions and cadidates? All you hear on TV and on line is bottom line propaganda. Well you never really know a candidates' real motives but propositions must be easier to interprete. I personally did not like elections; there are too much "mud slinging". I do not know if it is really democracy at work in these elections, but more like "who can appeal to the public better through the media".

David, you hit upon one of my biggest frustrations. To me it has gotten worse in the last ten years. The misinformation or outright lies some of the politicians tell are quite easily disproven but people believe them anyway. I really think the press is a large part of the problem. The main media mostly reports what both sides say when what they should be doing is figuring out the truth.

Daniel Patrick Moynihan said "Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but they are not entitled to their own facts"

[Taylor]

Originally Posted by JaneYoung

It is also always interesting to note who does not post in threads and to think about what those reasons could be. Since the days that I read but didn't post in ChiefDelphi, I have always been aware of that aspect of this marvelous fora adventure.

I have thought that many times. I was reminded of it by your post, and it had even greater meaning given this topic.


Then I read what Al S. wrote.


Yeah. What he said.

[JaneYoung]

Originally Posted by Taylor

Then I read what Al S. wrote.

Yeah. What he said.

Wisdom shared is priceless, isn't it?

And timeless.

Jane

[Tristan Lall]

Originally Posted by Wayne Doenges

Anyone who didn't vote has no right to complain.

I reserve the right to complain about things that I can't vote for.

Originally Posted by kstl99

Only on Chief Delphi can there be 8 posts on voting with noone giving their political views. This was extremely hard for me as I have very strong and one sided views, but I know this is a non-political forum. Its too bad that there is no forum that I know of to discuss politics the way we discuss issues here, with reasoned arguments and all trying to give honest respectful opinions even when we dissagree.

There's no better place to discuss politics on Chief Delphi than in the Chit-Chat forum. (Actually: confine the politics to this forum!) We do occasionally have good, reasoned political discussions here, though I'm a little disappointed that they're no longer as popular as they once were. (Have a look through the Chit-Chat archives for threads leading up to the 2004 U.S. federal elections, for example.)

Originally Posted by davidthefat

I personally did not like elections; there are too much "mud slinging". I do not know if it is really democracy at work in these elections, but more like "who can appeal to the public better through the media".

Just speaking hypothetically, how would you feel if election fundraising and campaigning were strictly regulated and limited to (for example) two months before the election date? (With primary elections, if any, held independently and handled by the parties, not the state.) Would the (inevitable) advertising frenzy and media circus be more tolerable in that case?

That's the way it works in many places outside the U.S. (though the limitation period varies)...and I'd say it's a major contributing factor to the vastly different political atmosphere elsewhere.