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  #16   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 03-12-2010, 11:29
JaneYoung JaneYoung is offline
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Re: What Does "Our Team Really Needs Funding" Mean To You?

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Originally Posted by Foster View Post
Small cost robotics (VEX,FLL,FTC,Best,Firefight,Airbots,SeaPerch,etc) can be covered by small fundraising / grants and parents.
That's painting with a little too wide of a stroke. BEST takes a lot of effort and a lot planning in order to compete well on local and regional level. Now, with the National Championship as an added incentive/opportunity - it takes careful budget planning and team preparation. It is also wise to have skilled technical mentors and non-technical mentors working with the team.

Same thing with FLL and FTC. Careful planning has to be a part of the competition package. If your point is that it can be on a smaller scale because of no registration fees or less expensive registration fees compared to FRC - I would agree with that part of it to some extent. The business plan, organization, team development, and financial stability is part of the package of being a competitive robotics team.

Jane
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Last edited by JaneYoung : 03-12-2010 at 11:32.
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Unread 03-12-2010, 11:46
Foster Foster is offline
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Re: What Does "Our Team Really Needs Funding" Mean To You?

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Originally Posted by JaneYoung View Post
That's painting with a little too wide of a stroke. BEST takes a lot of effort and a lot planning in order to compete well on local and regional level. Now, with the National Championship as an added incentive/opportunity - it takes careful budget planning and team preparation. It is also wise to have skilled technical mentors and non-technical mentors working with the team.

Same thing with FLL and FTC. Careful planning has to be a part of the competition package. If your point is that it can be on a smaller scale because of no registration fees or less expensive registration fees compared to FRC - I would agree with that part of it to some extent. The business plan, organization, team development, and financial stability is part of the package of being a competitive robotics team.
Sweeping generalizations are one of my hallmarks. It takes team planning effort, budgets, skills to be successful in any robot competition. But those events don't require it at a level that FRC does. For $1200-1500 I can put together an amazing VEX team, go to a few competitions and be very happy. For another $500 I can go to Worlds (if the robot is good enough). That money does not scratch the surface of FRC. I can build a robot team with a few roboteers and another parent, not happening with FRC.

I don't want to derail your thread to get into a cost thing, I wanted to expand on rsisks its more than building a robot. Because of the cost in time and money FRC is a full time "business" effort. The Have are haves because they recognize that and work on it.
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Unread 03-12-2010, 11:48
maltz1881 maltz1881 is offline
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Re: What Does "Our Team Really Needs Funding" Mean To You?

I used to think of us as a Have Not team.. I have realized though that I was giving my kids that impression as well. Not the best impression to give your team or think of another team in those perimeters. Yes there are teams who have more money than us but there are also teams who have less. Our team has helped both and will continue to offer teams from both sides our assistance.

I have come to realize that when we "label" those teams as "Have Nots" we are deflating thier spirit. Ex. Why bother giving our best when we know we will never be in the same place as say Hot Team or Killer Bees. When I asked my kids now that I have changed my attitude, they say why can't we compete with them?

What is wrong with fund raising? Six of my kids got together and raised $1,200.00 in 2 weeks selling candy bars. To us that is a lot of money and I know to others it is the difference between being able to buy extra parts for there robot or using the kit. Those kids have begged me to sell them again in Janurary. I finally agreed to it.

The Michigan District Events have made us a stronger team. We used to do 1 event and were grateful for that. Two events though have helped us more than you can imagine. We are all Haves because we are able to build robots and teach these kids that they are capable of anything!! Most of the world can't say that unfortunetly.
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Unread 03-12-2010, 11:58
JaneYoung JaneYoung is offline
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Re: What Does "Our Team Really Needs Funding" Mean To You?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Foster View Post
I don't want to derail your thread to get into a cost thing, I wanted to expand on rsisks its more than building a robot. Because of the cost in time and money FRC is a full time "business" effort. The Have are haves because they recognize that and work on it.
I wouldn't consider any of this a derailment. It might be interesting to see a cost comparison which could include the travel costs of the team. Your example of taking the FLL team to Worlds is a good example.

Thank you, everyone, for your contributions to this thread.

Jane
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Unread 03-12-2010, 13:18
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Re: What Does "Our Team Really Needs Funding" Mean To You?

I've never considered our team a "Have Not", as we have a very large and very generouse sponsor in our area (LCF) that pays our registration fees every year (I believe they also pay the registration fees for two other local FRC teams, as well as sponsor dozens of FLL and FTC teams, but don't quote me on that). We also have two committed engineering mentors who live at the shop with us for build season, as well as a teacher acting as our coach who gives us free reign in his machine shop. But I wouldn't consider our team a "Have" team, either. In the past we haven't had the focus to put together a business plan, and because of that there have been times it's been a close call on covering our expenses, and we'll only be attending one regonal this year.

But enough about us.

I firmly believe the "Have" teams deserve every cent they have, because they had to earn it. It takes innitiative to go out and get the fund raising and sponsorships required to be a "Have" team, and they deserve recognition for their efforts.
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Unread 03-12-2010, 18:03
Tom Ore Tom Ore is offline
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Re: What Does "Our Team Really Needs Funding" Mean To You?

On a bit of tangent, we might define "have" and "have not" by state rather than by team. The following list is ranking of FRC teams per capita. The "have nots" would be the teams at the bottom, with very few teams per capita.

# State Per Capita
54 Maine 24413
33 New Hampshire 40139
127 Minnesota 41466
14 Washington, D.C. 42833
25 Hawaii 51807
172 Michigan 57964
53 Oklahoma 69567
42 Connecticut 83769
79 Washington 84357
35 Oregon 109304
13 Idaho 118908
50 Missouri 119752
65 Virginia 121271
37 Colorado 135804
7 Montana 139284
62 New Jersey 140447
20 Kansas 140937
19 Utah 146556
126 New York 155091
41 Arizona 160873
34 Maryland 167632
141 Texas 175761
32 Wisconsin 176712
3 Wyoming 181423
25 South Carolina 182450
35 Indiana 183518
24 Louisiana 187170
3 Vermont 207253
5 Rhode Island 210642
3 North Dakota 215615
171 California 216150
49 Ohio 235564
11 Nevada 240280
49 Pennsylvania 257240
36 North Carolina 260580
11 Mississippi 268363
35 Georgia 280835
45 Illinois 286898
59 Florida 314203
13 Kentucky 331855
2 Alaska 349237
5 West Virginia 363955
11 Alabama 428064
2 Delaware 442561
14 Tennessee 449732
4 Arkansas 722363
8 Massachusetts 824198
3 Iowa 1002619
2 New Mexico 1004836
0 Nebraska #DIV/0!
0 South Dakota #DIV/0!
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Unread 03-12-2010, 18:10
davidthefat davidthefat is offline
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Re: What Does "Our Team Really Needs Funding" Mean To You?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Ore View Post
On a bit of tangent, we might define "have" and "have not" by state rather than by team. The following list is ranking of FRC teams per capita. The "have nots" would be the teams at the bottom, with very few teams per capita.

# State Per Capita
54 Maine 24413
33 New Hampshire 40139
127 Minnesota 41466
14 Washington, D.C. 42833
25 Hawaii 51807
172 Michigan 57964
53 Oklahoma 69567
42 Connecticut 83769
79 Washington 84357
35 Oregon 109304
13 Idaho 118908
50 Missouri 119752
65 Virginia 121271
37 Colorado 135804
7 Montana 139284
62 New Jersey 140447
20 Kansas 140937
19 Utah 146556
126 New York 155091
41 Arizona 160873
34 Maryland 167632
141 Texas 175761
32 Wisconsin 176712
3 Wyoming 181423
25 South Carolina 182450
35 Indiana 183518
24 Louisiana 187170
3 Vermont 207253
5 Rhode Island 210642
3 North Dakota 215615
171 California 216150
49 Ohio 235564
11 Nevada 240280
49 Pennsylvania 257240
36 North Carolina 260580
11 Mississippi 268363
35 Georgia 280835
45 Illinois 286898
59 Florida 314203
13 Kentucky 331855
2 Alaska 349237
5 West Virginia 363955
11 Alabama 428064
2 Delaware 442561
14 Tennessee 449732
4 Arkansas 722363
8 Massachusetts 824198
3 Iowa 1002619
2 New Mexico 1004836
0 Nebraska #DIV/0!
0 South Dakota #DIV/0!
California is broke apparently, we are in debt... A really big one
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Unread 03-12-2010, 19:35
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Re: What Does "Our Team Really Needs Funding" Mean To You?

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Originally Posted by Tom Ore View Post
On a bit of tangent, we might define "have" and "have not" by state rather than by team. The following list is ranking of FRC teams per capita. The "have nots" would be the teams at the bottom, with very few teams per capita.
At least one of those states has the wrong number of teams. Maine has 8 FRC teams registered this year, up from 6 last year.
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Unread 03-12-2010, 19:55
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Re: What Does "Our Team Really Needs Funding" Mean To You?

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Originally Posted by davidthefat View Post
California is broke apparently, we are in debt... A really big one
Hasn't stopped us for raising plenty for two regionals, champs, all associated student travel, money to remodel our shop, and plenty for the robot budget.

Hard work pays off, our team works hard to fund-raise, so we get results.

We don't live in an affluent community, and we have few sources of income greater than $500. It's just hard work and LOTS of fund-raisers.

When I joined the team, 973 was not a "have". They often used what they already had versus what was optimal for the design, they didn't build two robots, they didn't budget a lot for robots, they didn't budget for two regionals + champs. I helped reform the team, and through the hard work as a group the team is now a "Have" team.

I have little sympathy for people that whine about insufficient funding, etc... If you want to be a "Have", you have to put the work in.
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Unread 03-12-2010, 20:21
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Ivan Helmrich Ivan Helmrich is offline
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Re: What Does "Our Team Really Needs Funding" Mean To You?

Good topic.

I don't usually think in terms of Haves and Have Nots, more like Haves and Have Mores. If students are getting the chance to participate in FRC, they are doing pretty well compared to most students. But, thinking in terms of Haves and Have Nots, the thing that makes the most difference in my view is not the money. It has a lot more to do with support for the team.

It's really hard to have a good team experience if the team does not have support from the school, parents, engineering mentors, and other mentors. A good mentor, whether an engineering mentor or non-engineer, is worth way more than a $5000 grant to cover an entry fee. So is being based in a school (or other organization) that has a real interest in having a team. I'd be happy to trade a couple thousand budget dollars for a group of parents who show up and feed the team, help organise fundraising, transport kids to outreach functions, etc. If your team has this kind of support, it is a lot easier to put forward the effort to do the things that will make your team a Have.

Ivan
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Unread 03-12-2010, 21:29
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Bethie42 Bethie42 is offline
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Re: What Does "Our Team Really Needs Funding" Mean To You?

Our team has always gotten by on a really small budget [one regional, + a couple hundred dollars for parts]. There are teams in our area who have a $30k budget, but I don't think we have ever minded the disparity, because we perform comparatively to them at regionals.

This year we were within a hair's breadth of not being able to afford FRC, period. [Our large sponsor ended funding two years ago because of the economy.] Fortunately some small grants came through, and we got a NASA sustaining-grant after all.

I personally consider a 'have' team to be one which can afford one regional, AND has strong mentor/student/school support. [But that's just my perception, having been in a small private school which has almost no funding to spare for us.]
We're actually looking forward to a really good year, because of some great students and a large mentor population.

I think even ONE really dedicated student can make a huge difference to the team. This year, our fundraising has been spearheaded by one person [me]. The rest of our small team is willing to help, but they are almost all brand-new students and it is really hard to explain FIRST to a sponsor when you have never been to a regional We've had them help with bake sales and the like, but that is a slow hard way to earn money.

I feel honored to have been able to help our team so much: but I am very worried that things will go downhill next year, after I graduate. We need to make it a priority to make sure the rest of the team gets taught how to do my job. Sometimes it is easier to do things yourself than try and teach someone else how to do it.


In the last weeks there have been some great success stories from teams I know personally, and I am so excited that they pulled victory from the jaws of 'no-regional'. However, I also know personally a local team that won't be able to compete.

Here in Oregon there are two big university towns: Corvallis [OSU] and Eugene [U of O]. OSU has a reputation as a big engineering school, and U of O as more liberal-arts. As a result, there are a lot of engineering and tech businesses here in Corvallis, and I think that is responsible for the 6 FRC teams in Corvallis and surrounding towns. Eugene, on the other hand, a much bigger city, has only one team. They are going into their 4th year, but I just heard they lost their sponsor and can't afford FRC anymore. My impression is that Eugene does not attract people or businesses who are willing to invest in engineering programs like FIRST.

I think it is such a shame that these kids are now going to have to either drive 45 minutes to one of our teams, or miss out on FIRST. I take it as an example of how having a large engineering community can foster team sustainability.
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Unread 03-12-2010, 23:05
Tom Ore Tom Ore is offline
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Re: What Does "Our Team Really Needs Funding" Mean To You?

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Originally Posted by Vikesrock View Post
At least one of those states has the wrong number of teams. Maine has 8 FRC teams registered this year, up from 6 last year.
Sorry - MA and ME are reversed
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