Interesting story re: FRC1432 in Portland, OR's loss of school system support.

[Foster]

Form letter sent out by the school.

[Basel A]

Originally Posted by Foster

Form letter sent out by the school.

The issue I had with this at all was one little contradiction, that may just be a misunderstanding, or may not.
From the letter: "administrators were unable to find a staff advisor."
From the team's website: "We had at least 5 teachers willing to be our advisor but when the went to the office to sign the paper they were talked out of it."

[EricH]

I'd personally call it "spin". In one of the other threads relating to this topic, someone commented that they wouldn't be surprised to see a 180 with appropriate spin.

Second only to policy is making yourself look good, in a bureaucrat's/administrator's eyes. It's easy enough to "forget" that you talked teachers out of something, if that is indeed what they did.

[GaryVoshol]

"Talking them out of it" and "explaining the commitment required" are two versions of essentially the same explanation. Perhaps there were teachers interested in helping, but when the administration explained the commitment the teachers were no longer that interested.

[onecoolc]

Originally Posted by GaryVoshol

"Talking them out of it" and "explaining the commitment required" are two versions of essentially the same explanation. Perhaps there were teachers interested in helping, but when the administration explained the commitment the teachers were no longer that interested.

I'd like to point out Team 1432 has more than a dozen mentors, many of them engineering or programming mentors. The official "teacher" mentor would have been more of a formality. If they weren't interested in actually mentoring it probably wouldn't have been a problem.

[Ether]

Originally Posted by onecoolc

I'd like to point out Team 1432 has more than a dozen mentors, many of them engineering or programming mentors. The official "teacher" mentor would have been more of a formality. If they weren't interested in actually mentoring it probably wouldn't have been a problem.

Does the teacher have to be physically present at the school (for legal/liability/insurance/policy reasons) when the robotics "club" is meeting?

If so, then during build season that is a rather large commitment of time.

[Basel A]

Originally Posted by Ether

Does the teacher have to be physically present at the school (for legal/liability/insurance/policy reasons) when the robotics "club" is meeting?

If so, then during build season that is a rather large commitment of time.

They must have a staff member present while meeting at the school, which does make sense of course. Though I don't know if that's required to be the official staff advisor, or if they could just sit in their room grading papers.

Besides, I'm sure after a couple build meetings, the staff advisor would be interested to keep coming.

Though considering the team has already moved out, it doesn't matter any more. I was just pointing out an inconsistency.

[Ian Curtis]

Originally Posted by Basel A

They must have a staff member present while meeting at the school, which does make sense of course. Though I don't know if that's required to be the official staff advisor, or if they could just sit in their room grading papers.

Besides, I'm sure after a couple build meetings, the staff advisor would be interested to keep coming.

I think that's a pretty fantastic leap of faith. I don't know how often that particular team meets, but I'd hazard the average FRC team meets at least 8 hours a week? That's another 20% commitment that the teacher isn't getting paid for (or even with a stipend, isn't getting adequately compensated for). On top of that, I'm sure being the school liaison comes with its own host of headaches of when you can be there, when you can't, when you must clean out by, extra meetings, etc. You've gotta love it to do it, and I think the size of FRC indicates that there are a lot of people that do love it (at least for the first few weeks! ) . But not everyone does, or even has the time to try. If the full time college student workload is close to the full time teacher workload, I totally understand why they would not want the commitment.

[Ether]

considering the team has already moved out, it doesn't matter any more.

Although we all are delighted that 432 has landed on their feet, it's not a moot point. Gaining insight through discussion of what may have happened in 1432's situation could be useful to other teams going forward.

I'm sure after a couple build meetings, the staff advisor would be interested to keep coming

That would depend on their personal situation (family life) and expectations. Build season can be a very large time commitment - more than the potential staff advisor(s) might have had in mind when they stepped forward to inquire.

[JaneYoung]

Originally Posted by Ether

Gaining insight through discussion of what may have happened in 1432's situation could be useful to other teams going forward.

If the discussion continues to circle around pure conjecture on the part of those who don't know the full story, then it can cause harm to the team and to the school they were a part of. One example of that was the title of another thread in CD and how it was worded. Sometimes, we judge when we should not and we place value on rumors or bias. To my knowledge, no one from the team leadership has posted. I think the story has moved on and we should stop playing guessing games with the situation.

Jane

[Ether]

Originally Posted by JaneYoung

If the discussion continues to circle around pure conjecture on the part of those who don't know the full story, then it can cause harm to the team and to the school they were a part of. One example of that was the title of another thread in CD and how it was worded. Sometimes, we judge when we should not and we place value on rumors or bias. To my knowledge, no one from the team leadership has posted. I think the story has moved on and we should stop playing guessing games with the situation.

I appreciate your concern Jane. I don't advocate "circling around pure conjecture" or "placing value on rumors or bias" or "playing guessing games" either. So it seems we are on the same page there.

In order for your post to be more helpful, it would be instructive if you could clarify exactly what aspects of the following dialog you are characterizing that way:

12/3 05:51AM Foster posts Form letter sent out by the school

12/3 06:27AM Basel A identifies an apparent discrepancy between the letter and the team's website

12/3 07:19PM GaryVoshol explains that

"Talking them out of it" and "explaining the commitment required" are two versions of essentially the same explanation. Perhaps there were teachers interested in helping, but when the administration explained the commitment the teachers were no longer that interested.

(note: I personally found the above explanation quite helpful)

12/4 12:35AM onecoolc suggests that "The official teacher mentor would have been more of a formality"

12/4 09:13AM Ether points out that if the teacher has to be physically present at the school (for legal/liability/insurance/policy reasons) when the robotics "club" is meeting, then during build season that is a rather large commitment of time. (see Gary Voshol's earlier post)

12/4 11:14AM Basel A suggests that since the team has already moved out, it doesn't matter any more.

12/4 01:56PM Ether suggests that the discussion has provided some insight and could be useful to other teams.

[JaneYoung]

Originally Posted by Bethie42

Closure on this issue, glad to hear it was resolved:
today Oregon FRC teams got an email from our Regional Director, in reply to folks who'd been asking how to help team 1432:

'Wanted to let you know Franklin HS team 1432 is alive and well. They have moved to a new location for the 2011 season where they can build, were able to gather their tools and robot and we were able to have their FIRST grants and Intel donation funds sent back to FIRST and Intel respectively.

Appreciate everyone's concern as it shows what a supportive community FIRST is, but we can let this one rest and prepare for a very exciting 20th anniversary season!'

I'll post this on the other thread too.

If there is value in a discussion regarding the importance of teachers with regard to the topics of sustainability and stability, then that would make a valid discussion in its own thread. Regarding this thread, 1432, and their situation - the quote that I've included in this post suggests that we can let the topic of that situation - rest.

Jane

[oldgrowth]

A personal clarification from team 1432 - Many thanks to Deb Mumm-hill our regional director, and tireless supporter through out these difficult days.
At this time it is true that the school, after weeks of deliberation has decided that the team's property was different than the clubs property. Thanks to major financial contributors to the regional FIRST program, KOIN Television interview and the article in the BEE and of course an unknown number of teams offering support to Team 1432 by way of contacting Portland Public Schools, and the Franklin Administration.
Until we get a 501-C-3 we will be unable to get any grant money over and above the registration fee for the Oregon Regional. These funds are essential to building the robot and keeping our program going. The team continues to explore the possibility of using someone else's 501-C-3 but as of this date we have not found anyone willing and able to do that for us.
The response from the FIRST community has been very gratifying. We certainly didn't expect the number of blogs and tweeters and the response was beyond our ability to keep up with. Many thanks to all of you.
About the matter of returning to the school, if you are interested you can go to team 1432 website to the "He said She Said" and see how the school considers it resolved and our rebuttal including e-mails from all parties involved.
As the coach of this team I've spent more time in the last two months working on this issue than the time I have spent during any of the seven build seasons I have been involved in. I cannot in good conscience suggest to the team that they entrust their team's money and resources back under the school's control.
Team 1432 will participate in the Oregon Regional 2011 and we will continue to try to personify Gracious Professionalism.

"Never give up, never surrender"

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Coach,
It is our firm hope that your program can go on. Good luck to you in the future.

To those others who are still unsettled about the role of the schools in First activities, I must point out that all school districts are different. Their administrations, school boards, staff and even the insurance regulations placed on them by their providers will make their situation different than your own. And I might add it will vary from year to year and administrator to administrator. While this particular school/district/administration has decided to abandon it's First team for now, they may very well see the benefit of that program at some time in the future. Advice given to me a long time ago by one of my mentors seems to apply here. "Never burn your bridges!"

[oldgrowth]

Just a quick note to let every one know that the S.E. Portland Rotary has stepped up and volunteered to be our 501-C-3 this year while we write our own 501 and get it processed. Our grants are now secured. Many thanks to all for your tireless support and help during these very trying times. Watch the website for further information. There is to be a follow up story in the next Bee. We'll post it when they make it digital.



www.team1432.org