Collegiate FIRST competition

[CJmango]

Originally Posted by Greg Needel

I thought about joining the project on FIRSTforge to share this, but figure it is just as well posted here.

3)Not focusing on the robot: This is the biggest one.

To address your third concern, the weights set forth in the manual are very much just placeholders.

This concern of yours highlights the HUGE variability in what people think. You can ask for the program to be perfect, for it to not take away from FRC, for robots to be built for almost nothing... but ultimately these things are impossible. This award structure is how we will recognize that there is more to the engineering challenge than the short competition; there is more to FIRST than the robot; there is more to a team than the driver on the field; and so on.

As for the same robots each year, just because the challenge may vary doesn't mean a team can't build off of the same platform. This program has no restrictions in place to prevent re-entry next year. Of course, this is a pilot and we've never done it before, so who knows?

The reason there are multiple challenges this year is that we have no idea how well any of these robots will perform. We also have no idea what sorts of challenges the robots will be able to complete. This 3-game triathlon format is how we will utilize our experiment to take as much data as possible. We increment the difficulty and test out various air and ground modalities with the hope of receiving as much feedback as possible about what people like and dislike following the event. Do you like one game more than another? Tell us!

Thanks for the critical thinking and great feedback!

[AdamHeard]

Originally Posted by CJmango

To address your third concern, the weights set forth in the manual are very much just placeholders.

This concern of yours highlights the HUGE variability in what people think. You can ask for the program to be perfect, for it to not take away from FRC, for robots to be built for almost nothing... but ultimately these things are impossible. This award structure is how we will recognize that there is more to the engineering challenge than the short competition; there is more to FIRST than the robot; there is more to a team than the driver on the field; and so on.

As for the same robots each year, just because the challenge may vary doesn't mean a team can't build off of the same platform. This program has no restrictions in place to prevent re-entry next year. Of course, this is a pilot and we've never done it before, so who knows?

The reason there are multiple challenges this year is that we have no idea how well any of these robots will perform. We also have no idea what sorts of challenges the robots will be able to complete. This 3-game triathlon format is how we will utilize our experiment to take as much data as possible. We increment the difficulty and test out various air and ground modalities with the hope of receiving as much feedback as possible about what people like and dislike following the event. Do you like one game more than another? Tell us!

Thanks for the critical thinking and great feedback!

I agree with Greg, make it more about the Robot and whittle it down to one game.

This is college level, it should be about the robot when it comes to victory. Although the other areas are important, engineers are primarily paid to make good products.

Personally, it'd be the difference for someone like me even considering competing or not; some people only like competitive competitions.

[sssbox]

Originally Posted by AdamHeard

I agree with Greg, make it more about the Robot and whittle it down to one game.

This is college level, it should be about the robot when it comes to victory. Although the other areas are important, engineers are primarily paid to make good products.

Personally, it'd be the difference for someone like me even considering competing or not; some people only like competitive competitions.

Though I agree that robots are important in a robot competition, I disagree slightly with the notion that engineers are only going to need to make good products.

In most cases that may be true, but as someone who has worked for two startups, I know how much effort goes into building a team of skilled people and organizing them to do more than build a great product. You can have the best idea and the best product in the world, but if you don't have a well run team and you don't know how to market your product, support your customers, etc you will not succeed.

[JesseK]

I've sat on my thoughts for this, and think I'm ready to give some input.

FIRST is about inspiration, yes. College FIRST should be about intrinsically inspiring individuals, not a society. Typically, students who would choose to do a FIRST challenge in college have already chosen the path that FIRST's message wants them to take, so FIRST in college with all of the high school mentality is like preaching to the choir.

In college it's time to face the real world, including actual failures that lead to loss. In high school the mentors told them failure is ok; in college it's the same, yet students should at least mature to understand the risk in endeavor. Take the training wheels off and force the students to get GOOD at what they're trying to do in the most technical sense possible. This is how FIRST in college could inspire an individual.

Any bonus points should come from a business plan for the design of the robot that the team comes up with. The rest are frivolous intermediary awards that serve no purpose for a college that's in the business of pushing engineering students to their technical limits.

[AdamHeard]

Originally Posted by sssbox

Though I agree that robots are important in a robot competition, I disagree slightly with the notion that engineers are only going to need to make good products.

In most cases that may be true, but as someone who has worked for two startups, I know how much effort goes into building a team of skilled people and organizing them to do more than build a great product. You can have the best idea and the best product in the world, but if you don't have a well run team and you don't know how to market your product, support your customers, etc you will not succeed.

I agree that other areas are important, as I said. However, engineers are primarily paid to make good products (or test good products, or oversee the work on good products, Marketing a good product, etc.. etc... It all comes down to good products).

[Akash Rastogi]

I agree with what Adam has said here. I am currently not involved in FIRST while at college because I was one of the people that did not really like the community aspect of the team. I wanted to focus on building the best machine possible, but community involvement always seemed to get in the way. A college competition based solely around the machine would be more inviting for serious engineering students.

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by Akash Rastogi

I agree with what Adam has said here. I am currently not involved in FIRST while at college because I was one of the people that did not really like the community aspect of the team. I wanted to focus on building the best machine possible, but community involvement always seemed to get in the way. A college competition based solely around the machine would be more inviting for serious engineering students.

You mean like the Vex Robotics College Challenge? The competition exists, is challenging on both a mechanical and software front, and has had a few years of success behind it. There aren't many other college level head-to-head robotics competition models, so it has a pretty neat niche.

[RoboMom]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

You mean like the Vex Robotics College Challenge? The competition exists, is challenging on both a mechanical and software front, and has had a few years of success behind it. There aren't many other college level head-to-head robotics competition models, so it has a pretty neat niche.

And in the Mid-Atlantic, this is a really fun event: http://robotevents.com/robot-competi...challenge.html

[Akash Rastogi]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

You mean like the Vex Robotics College Challenge? The competition exists, is challenging on both a mechanical and software front, and has had a few years of success behind it. There aren't many other college level head-to-head robotics competition models, so it has a pretty neat niche.

I love VEX, but Bigger!
Meh, I still don't see a problem with having a pilot competition. The way they gauge how well/poorly the pilot does is the issue. Hopefully FIRST will publish criteria for the pass/fail of the pilot event.

[popnbrown]

Summing up a bunch of other points, opportunities for serious engineering students exist already, in research and actual classes. I would still take FIRST College (what're we calling it now?) to be an extra-curricular and additive to anything you do as an engineering student. And since FIRST's mission isn't about Robotics (just happens that's the best discipline to spread their mission), and is more about spreading science and technology, and creating the next generation of engineers. I would expect an equal weight to the robot building design as well as the presentation aspect.

I mentioned this earlier about a Engineering Design award, where the award should be based not only on the actual design of the robot, but equivalently to the presentation of the design.

I would also like to see another award similar to chairman's, showcasing how a team acts in its community and affects others to become inspired by science and technology. Because this again, is part of FIRST's mission (and really what makes it different).

Taking all the same aspects of FRC to the college level but upping the actual science and technology behind the robot and including a "conference paper", would be really optimal.

[mplanchard]

My advice to any college engineering student is to first concentrate on successfully completing the courses for your degree. Second, look and see what activity will help you start your career. Once you are working, paying back loans, you will then have the resources to be a mentor. I have seen some great college mentors - but I have seen others that have had a tough time with second semester classes.

There are many college competitions which have the spirit and the community of FIRST, I have seen one SAE team give another SAE team parts, help weld, or cheer on a competitior. Even if your college does not participate in FIRST or VEX, they may have other robot competitions that compete on the college/commerical/international circuit. Marie