Possible new product Survey

[thefro526]

Alex, this is a fantastic idea!

I've been looking for a way to make my own field layout clip board for sometime now and it seems like you're already way ahead of me. I'd love to see this happen.

[IndySam]

Good luck!

[Alex Cormier]

Originally Posted by thefro526

Alex, this is a fantastic idea!

I've been looking for a way to make my own field layout clip board for sometime now and it seems like you're already way ahead of me. I'd love to see this happen.

Thanks all!

Yeah, up to 34 results so far. Keep them coming.


I am hoping to get product in soon and start shipping these out a few days after kickoff.

[tim-tim]

Done.

I added some insight to what 836 has been doing since 2006 (if not earlier). We use a whiteboard that has field elements drawn on with permanent marker and then a red and blue dry erase marker for each alliance's gameplan.

We have been telling numerous teams at competitions that it works successfully and still have not seen that many other teams with one. I think this is a great idea, but try to make the product adaptable to an ever changing field from year to year.

Please let me know if you have any questions about how we conduct alliance meetings.

[Alan Anderson]

I would be surprised if someone could sell something like this for a price lower than a team would spend on materials to make their own. Good luck.

[JesseK]

Originally Posted by Alan Anderson

I would be surprised if someone could sell something like this for a price lower than a team would spend on materials to make their own. Good luck.

I think it's a question of quality, time, and ability of teams. For example, my students came up with a lexan-paper-lexan sandwich board for me last year -- while it was incredibly useful the bolts kept poking me, the edges never seemed smooth enough, and we just couldn't find the time to redo it. If the quality of a product is good enough to last a couple of seasons yet adaptable to each season's game (better yet, interchangeable to fit VEX, FTC, and FRC in one board), then to me it's worth buying the product and having the students spend time on the other important things that sometimes don't get done as well as they should.

[davidthefat]

I was the one that suggested the "software".

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by davidthefat

I was the one that suggested the "software".

How does software apply here?

[davidthefat]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

How does software apply here?

Planning, and strategy, like this software: http://www.teamonthree.com/playbooks...ook-maker.aspx

I had success using similar software and printing it out for all my team mates.

It can be modified for every year instead of wasting physical resources, only man time and a few bytes are used. Also the strategies and plans can be saved for later use.

I just think that is a lot more economical and better on general.

[Alan Anderson]

Originally Posted by davidthefat

Planning, and strategy, like this software: http://www.teamonthree.com/playbooks...ook-maker.aspx

I had success using similar software and printing it out for all my team mates.

I suspect you are misunderstanding the goal here. We're talking about meeting with one's alliance partners before a given match in order to compare teams' strengths and abilities against those of the opposing alliance, and choose a strategic plan for that particular match. Preprinted play cards would rarely, if ever, correspond to the specific mix of robots playing.

It can be modified for every year instead of wasting physical resources, only man time and a few bytes are used.

It seems to me that a portable computer represents significantly more "physical resources" than a whiteboard, a laminated clipboard, or a pad of paper, even if a new whiteboard and set of dry-erase markers is used each season. A used match strategy board even makes a good end-of-year memento for the drive coach, if you consider such trinkets a worthwhile part of the team experience.

[davidthefat]

Originally Posted by Alan Anderson

I suspect you are misunderstanding the goal here. We're talking about meeting with one's alliance partners before a given match in order to compare teams' strengths and abilities against those of the opposing alliance, and choose a strategic plan for that particular match. Preprinted play cards would rarely, if ever, correspond to the specific mix of robots playing.



It seems to me that a portable computer represents significantly more "physical resources" than a whiteboard, a laminated clipboard, or a pad of paper, even if a new whiteboard and set of dry-erase markers is used each season. A used match strategy board even makes a good end-of-year memento for the drive coach, if you consider such trinkets a worthwhile part of the team experience.

Oh I assumed due to the very low requirements for running such software that the classmate would have been sufficient to use. My team never did such planning, just talked it over with the alliance. My coach once told us that its not about the X's and O's but Bills and Joes. The coach can make all the best plays and the best strategies, but its really up to the players, driver for this situation, to pull it off. I don't know about you, but even with planning, everything goes up in the air once you actually start. Its so unpredictable during the game.

I mean, but if its boards that float your boat, go for it. I guess I am just the new generation that sees the boards as "old school" (Take no offense, like 20 years from now, kids will be laughing at our super computers)

[Chris is me]

I guess you could do it with an iPad / Classmate, but a lot of the stuff I use a strategy board for is for non-playbook strategies - drawing arrows between bots, scribbling out autonomous modes, et cetera. It would require a much higher investment than a marker and a handful of magnets to make software do what's being sought here.

[JesseK]

For digital devices, a 'strategy book' is very straightforward. A simple graphic of the field with some software paint brushes would suffice to create strategies. One such program already comes with Windows, and in Win7 it's pretty darn nice to use with a touch surface. Saving the picture off is the hardest part (mostly because MS's operating system doesn't come with a default theme for larger buttons to be used by fingers...). I do this kind of thing all of the time for class with my Lenovo touch netbook.

Since the electronic device wouldn't be needed all of the time, it could stay in the pits on the charger. Yet I do agree that it's a $500 investment for something that's more of a toy than anything in regards to FRC; perhaps it's best to use this method only if someone already owns it and is willing to lend it.

Personally, given the choice I'd still rather have a 'board' and dry-erase; I have a phone with a camera and a real digital camera to 'save' the strategy off.

[thefro526]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

I guess you could do it with an iPad / Classmate, but a lot of the stuff I use a strategy board for is for non-playbook strategies - drawing arrows between bots, scribbling out autonomous modes, et cetera. It would require a much higher investment than a marker and a handful of magnets to make software do what's being sought here.

I'm with Chris on this one.

While a software option would be cool, it also means that you'd need some sort of touch screen device like a tablet PC, iPad, etc... That device would also need to be charged, needs time to setup, would be relatively fragile (in comparison to a clipboard) and is also just one more thing to have to keep an eye on.

A clipboard is great because it takes up minimal room, can be tossed on a cart, in a backpack, or just carried around and is pretty forgiving if you drop it, step on it, throw it, or attempt to use it for some other purpose other than a clipboard...

[Alan Anderson]

Originally Posted by davidthefat

Oh I assumed due to the very low requirements for running such software that the classmate would have been sufficient to use.

That's likely a valid assumption, but I think there are other assumptions you're making that aren't nearly as good. When logged in as the Driver user, it doen't easily have the option of running arbitrary programs. The keyboard and trackpad are simply unsuited to such on-the-go use. Most importantly, though, the Classmate is needed for running the robot. It can't be taken from that task during strategy planning.

My team never did such planning, just talked it over with the alliance. My coach once told us that its not about the X's and O's but Bills and Joes. The coach can make all the best plays and the best strategies, but its really up to the players, driver for this situation, to pull it off.

I suggest that you take the opportunity to watch some of the "powerhouse" teams in action before their matches at the next competition you attend. Deciding on a strategic plan for each specific match is an important part of being an effective alliance. If you leave it up to the drivers to decide what to do, there won't be anywhere near the coordinated action necessary to play well against an alliance that does have an overall plan.

I don't know about you, but even with planning, everything goes up in the air once you actually start. Its so unpredictable during the game.

That's why it makes sense to establish strategic roles for each robot in advance. That way the drivers have a clear task to work on even in the middle of what seems like total chaos.

I mean, but if its boards that float your boat, go for it. I guess I am just the new generation that sees the boards as "old school" (Take no offense, like 20 years from now, kids will be laughing at our super computers)

If you want to spend your limited programming resources to reproduce on a computer what can easily be done better with a power-independent, larger, lighter, and cheaper whiteboard, that's up to you, but...

Originally Posted by Chris is me

I guess you could do it with an iPad / Classmate, but a lot of the stuff I use a strategy board for is for non-playbook strategies - drawing arrows between bots, scribbling out autonomous modes, et cetera. It would require a much higher investment than a marker and a handful of magnets to make software do what's being sought here.

...Yeah, what he said.