What Have Been The Gains Over The Past 20 Years In FRC?

[JaneYoung]

In reading the 1st Game Hint thread, it has reminded me that 20 years have passed since the very first FRC game. The Game Hint thread is providing an opportunity to think about the gains over the last 20 years. I wouldn't say there are any losses because - 20 years ago, there was no FRC. Which also brings up the question - what were the other robotics competitions 20 years ago and how many of the current robotics competitions have roots in FRC?

Being a non-engineering mentor, I don't have any idea what the technical value and gains have been but perhaps engineers and technical mentors can give some insight in that area.

This is a fantastic time/opportunity for FIRST to share their history and the gains that have been made. I'm wondering if we are as aware of them as we could be.

What do you think?

Jane

[KrazyCarl92]

It really is hard to fathom how long FIRST has been impacting people's lives. To try to grasp perspective, I am one of the oldest students on my team and I wasn't born until about 8 months AFTER the first FRC competition was held. That's fairly mind blowing considering that one of my mentors has been doing this since before I was born.

After some brief research of competition robotics on wikipedia, it appears that FRC is tied for the longest sustaining robotics competition.

Here are a few places where the history of the FRC competitions have been documented:

http://usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/....aspx?id=18620 <----- the FIRST website, of course


swift.auburn.wednet.edu/amhs/stim/documents/frc-history.ppt <------ A powerpoint by Andy Baker which focuses on trend-setting, unique, and dominant designs over the years (I couldn't get all of the links to work but a cool resource none the less)


http://team20.com/pastrobots.htm <----- Team 20's website, where we have compiled photos of our past robots and competition footage for most of the FRC competitions to date

[Robert Cawthon]

The gains have not been in the robots, nor in the games, nor even in how long FIRST has been active. The gains are in each and every kid (and to a certain extent, the mentors) that have been touched by FIRST. Some went on and became (will become) engineers, some not. All were affected by it.

[Chris Fultz]

The list is long, but some of the major technical gains I have seen in 10 years would include -

1. Availability of COTS transmissions. These have allowed teams to create a powerful, reliable drive system and focus on the unique portions of the robot (ball handlers, manipulators, etc.)

2. Kit Chassis. The availability of a kit chassis that is very flexible and useable is a huge step. Rookie and veteran teams have made great use of this part of the kit.

3. Sensors and Autonomous Programming - Teams are making major steps in the use of sensors in autonomous and driver operated modes. More robots use sensor inputs to make decisions and allow mechanisms to be enabled or disabled. The step changes in autonomous mode functin and capability is incredible.

4. Use of modeling software (Autodesk, Solidworks, etc.) to design in advance of making parts. More and more robots are designed in software before any parts are made and modeling can allow multiple "what-ifs".

[IKE]

Along with Chris's list, I would like to add advanced scouting techniques. Some teams are using some pretty advanced tools to model and predict match outcomes, and then adjust strategies accordingly.

I would also like to praise the scheduling algorithm improvements.

Sharing the keys to success.
The other day, we were cleaning the shop and came across a large satin sheet with zippers on it. I asked our more vetran mentors what it was, and they explained it was a robot cover. I assuming is was to keep it from being damaged, but then they explained that pre-2000, FRC was extremely secretive. So secretive, that teams would actually cover their robots between matches so others couldn't "steal" ideas. Now everyone will tell you everything you could possibly want to know about their bots. Pretty amazing really. (I do miss the behind the design books though).

[rsisk]

Originally Posted by IKE

Sharing the keys to success.
The other day, we were cleaning the shop and came across a large satin sheet with zippers on it. I asked our more vetran mentors what it was, and they explained it was a robot cover. I assuming is was to keep it from being damaged, but then they explained that pre-2000, FRC was extremely secretive. So secretive, that teams would actually cover their robots between matches so others couldn't "steal" ideas. Now everyone will tell you everything you could possibly want to know about their bots. Pretty amazing really. (I do miss the behind the design books though).

Interesting, I wonder what stimulated this change...

[Alan Anderson]

Originally Posted by rsisk

Interesting, I wonder what stimulated this change...

In a happy coincidence, I just happened to run across this excerpt from a Woodie Flowers Award submission an hour ago:

In 2000, the Technokats robot, “TechnoBeast,” consisted of a transmission that shifted from high to low gears using a servo. This design was possible because of a major contribution by Andy and was very successful. To top it all off, in the summer of 2000, Andy made a decision to upload the design featuring explanations and draft prints to the Chief Delphi website for other teams to download. Since it was uploaded, 149,636 people have downloaded the prints, and many teams have actually used that design to this day. Elgin Clock of Team 237 from Watertown, Connecticut said, “(A) big hearty thank you goes out to the TechnoKats for their gracious professionalism in sharing this idea! We modified it quite a bit to accept a pneumatic mechanism, but it's still the same concept." Andy believes that if another team can take a design that the Technokats have come up with, and modify it to work for themselves, it raises the level of competition in FIRST. Because of the overwhelming positive response, the TechnoKats drive designs from that present season are released for the general public.

Andy Baker and Team 45 won't take all the credit, but we TechnoKats consider ourselves proud to be among the first in FRC to be so open about our designs.

[JaneYoung]

Do you think the secrecy has changed to openness because of the attitude of the engineers or has it been one of culture change led by the engineers - or am I saying the same thing, basically?

Jane

P.S. The satin sheet w/zippers would make a great museum piece - showing the history/mentality of the times.

[Jared Russell]

I was just going to add the same thing...collaboration!

(Chris is dead-on with regards to technical gains - I would add the availability of high level programming languages and software frameworks to facilitate "out of the box" advanced robot functionality)

But collaboration...that's HUGE! First there's the sharing of designs on Chief Delphi - both those that are tried and true (like 45's shifter) and those that are hypothetical (all those myriad chassis models you see every other day). Even if you don't plan on building the mechanism yourself, being a fly-on-the-wall for some of the back-and-forth in the comments section can be incredibly educational. Hopefully something like Behind the Design can be rejuvenated (I'm in, who's with me!) to capture all of it formally.

There's also collaboration in the 254/968/60 and 1114/1503/1680 sense - multiple teams pooling their resources to produce superior robots. Less dramatic, but more common, collaboration sees teams frequently sharing work and practice spaces, machine shop access, or parts.

Why is collaboration so ubiquitous now when 10+ years ago it was much less common? 2 reasons IMO:

1. Alliances. Remember that prior to 1999, you didn't have any teammates. Prior to 2006 (2001 is a special case), you didn't have TWO teammates. If you want to go all the way in contemporary FRC, you better have good partners...so collaboration really does pay off, even for the top teams.

2. Awards. FIRST has been consistent in their praise for teams who raise the bar of collaboration. Andy Baker's WFA. Team 254's CCA. Other CCA teams like 341 and 365 may not build robots collaboratively, but they promote the growth and nurturing of others through an institutional form of collaboration. Teams notice what is said during award speeches, and try to emulate those who have been rewarded.

[rsisk]

When did the ChiefDelphi forums start? I notice the archives go back to 1999. Maybe having a place to share ideas also helped nurture openness.

I also think there has been a general shift toward openness and sharing prompted by the internet generation where information is so much easier to share.

[IKE]

Originally Posted by Jared341

1. Alliances.

2. Awards. .

3. Great examples leading the way (see Technokats post above).

In a nutshell, you get the behaviours that you reward, but you also need someone to show the way. Someone needs to show the way otherwise everyone will sit back and be comfortable with previous philosophies until they become uncomfortable.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

I noticed that things were changing in 1997. Although some teams were still reluctant, many teams shared and had already gained a sense of helping others by the time of the first Midwest Regional. Although there were no alliances, many teams, Technokats and Bomb Squad just to name two, were very open. It was at that time that students began to be encouraged to look at other teams for ideas. By the time of the 1998 Champs, our students were given homework to go look for something cool in other pits and report back. We were all just learning at that time. It is the first time in my memory that we were actually encouraging students from other teams to take pictures and ask questions.
To this day, I still get "You do what!?!?!" when I tell people about sharing and gracious professionalism.

[JaneYoung]

Any other gains, anyone?

Jane

[JaneYoung]

After watching the Kick Off yesterday, I was blown away by the thought behind the use of the logo for this year's game. The game is challenging teams to think outside of many boxes - not just the ones that concern building the robots. By doing so, our FIRST leaders are challenging us to move forward into the future and work with the growing pains that come with developing the programs, helping to make their vision of FIRST, a reality.

Yay!

Jane

[Rich Kressly]

Originally Posted by rsisk

Interesting, I wonder what stimulated this change...

Alliances, among other corresponding events.
Alliances were put into the rules in 1999. Like any culture change, it takes time for the people to realize what that really meant. Couple the rules changes with the persistent corresponding messages from Dean, Woodie, and Dave and it would seem obvious why the covers melted away by 2000 or so. "Oh, we need to share because this event is full of potential partners..."