FIRST's Bag and Tag policies...

[Tsom467]

Originally Posted by EricH

I'll tell you part of what's going on. VENUE policies. In some venues, FIRST can't get clearance to have teams bring their robot in, no matter how close the teams are located.

Sorry, but that's not entirely true. When I was speaking of the WPI event, the organizers of the event asked FIRST if they could be Bag and Tag and FIRST told then NO. I can't speak of other events, but that is what happened with WPI.. the VENUE asked FIRST and FIRST flat out told then they could not.

[ATannahill]

The organizers and the venue are two different entities. The venue is owned by WPI and all of their rules apply.

The organizers are mostly volunteers that make sure the regional runs well.

[Tsom467]

Just to clarify, when I spoke of WPI's organizers and Venue I was speaking of the same people.

[EricH]

When I said venue, I wasn't referring to the regional committees/event organizers. I was referring to the physical site of the regional--and any associated unions, policies, and other similar "nuisances".

I've actually seen the crew of a regional site insist on taking the field out to the truck--parked at a bed-level loading dock--one case at a time with a forklift. It doesn't make sense, but you have to either live with it, or as in that case, someone with some authority needs to step up and make noise to allow for more efficient/effective loading.

At this point, I don't think anything will change. (Timing could also have been a factor.) But what you do is for next year, you make enough noise via official channels that "Regional X should be Bag-and Tag" that FIRST has to notice. At that point, next year's should be given the green light for that, if the venue approves.

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by EricH

When I said venue, I wasn't referring to the regional committees/event organizers. I was referring to the physical site of the regional--and any associated unions, policies, and other similar "nuisances".

This doesn't apply to WPI - the regional venue on campus isn't bound by any of this. Battlecry happens in the exact same location without such hassles.

I am willing to bet the RPC knows more about their own venue than FIRST does - or you do.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

This doesn't apply to WPI - the regional venue on campus isn't bound by any of this. Battlecry happens in the exact same location without such hassles.

I am willing to bet the RPC knows more about their own venue than FIRST does - or you do.

Not knowing anything about venue policies, I took the broader approach, which can cover other venues about which the same complaint can be voiced. For instance, I don't know if WPI's venue has unions, policies, and that sort of thing--but I do know that L.A.'s venues have had unions, with rather strict (and some would say obnoxious) rules. One of those is where the incident I mentioned above took place.

Anything on FIRST's end is out of any of our control, other than to make noise about it. They do tend to listen, if it's made in the right way and manner.

[Bryan Herbst]

I do agree that it seems silly to not allow teams to remove their robots from events themselves if their next event is bag and tag.

However, I believe that one of the major reasons FIRST will not allow your regional to bag and tag is that bag and tag is still very young and FIRST is still trying it out. They do not want to simply convert all regionals to bag and tag before they are absolutely sure it will work and before they have worked out all the kinks.

Having two systems does create a bit of a hassle, but in the end I believe it will result in a solid system for next year, when I expect FIRST will roll out bag and tag to the rest of (or at least a majority of) the regionals.

[Valkyries_698]

If Customs opens your bag you can have them close it back up with tape with CUSTOMS written on it(similar to caution tape). at least thats what happened to a package I received from Germany.

[Tristan Lall]

Let me quickly address the issue with Canadian customs: basically, you've got a legal obligation to submit your possessions to search. So if they instruct you to open it, I would suggest you do so. (Nothing FIRST says can override what you're required to do under penalty of law.) Then, when the customs agent is satisfied, seal it again, with a new numbered zip tie.

Log both the opening and closing of the bag on your lockup form, and specify "Canada customs" as the reason. That's the critical step—but if you want to be meticulous about it, consider asking the customs agent for a receipt, and providing that to the robot inspector. (Another good practice is to carry a letter from your school explaining the purpose of the robot, and noting that the robot and all your tools will be used in Canada during the competition and promptly returned to the U.S.. This tells the customs agent that there are no importation duties due.)

Provided that the team properly attests that it followed all the rules (via appropriate signatures on the lockup form), having to open the bag for customs won't cause a problem at the events. (Yes, the manual should probably have explained this, but doesn't; if you're still concerned and need a statement from FIRST, feel free to ask the Q&A when it opens.)

[Al Skierkiewicz]

I agree with Tristan on this and suggest that in the event customs asks you to break the seal, ask if the agent will sign YOUR Bar and Tag document with the new seal already documented. If nothing else, it will provide an interesting object for the team.
A reminder to any team participating in one B&T and one traditional event. Please be sure to read, understand and implement all the rules involving robot handling and shipment. Make one person responsible for the documents so that they don't get lost.
TSOM, they are many reasons that come into play for the decisions that are made for each event that are not apparent. Don't let something little like the lack of a B&T event across the street keep you from enjoying the competition.

[Roger]

Originally Posted by Tsom467

We also heard the Brazil team, whose first event is the bag-and-tag Boston event (I believe) have to bring their robot with them, instead of shipping it.

According to this, Boston isn't a Bag & Tag; according to this, Brazil isn't coming here either. Maybe you're thinking of BAE Manchester NH instead?

But I didn't come here to say that. Before I checked the above I was thinking the Brazil team could ship the robot to me, as my office (and garage space) is directly across the street from BU's Agannis Arena where it's held, and they just have to roll it across Comm Ave. But it's a moot point now.

Regarding the OP: there are going to be some silly contradictions all over with this. My team has to lug our robot to Finger Lakes and back, then ship it to Boston (roughly 20 miles).

After Kickoff when the FIRST Q&A website opens is when to ask the questions. Boston is probably not B&T (I'm guessing) because of union rules, a small loading dock area, and/or a low height underground parking. Why WPI isn't, I don't know; maybe they saw how Battlecry did it they wanted a more smooth operation. It does get rather hectic in that driveway. Plus the chance of snow messing things up too?

[Jeff Pahl]

Originally Posted by Al Skierkiewicz

A reminder to any team participating in one B&T and one traditional event. Please be sure to read, understand and implement all the rules involving robot handling and shipment. Make one person responsible for the documents so that they don't get lost.

I gave a short presentation about B&T at the MN Splash Seminar event in Dec, including some things to be aware of if you are attending one of each type of event. We have both traditional and B&T events here in MN this year so we have several teams attending both types. The presentation can be found here.

[quinxorin]

Michigan is so much simpler. We're entirely bag-and-tag (we actually started it a year earlier than everyone else) and we're basically closed off from the rest of the world, no other teams are allowed to compete in a Michigan competition anymore. Makes the whole process much simpler. Then again, whenever FIRST decides to change a policy (such as instituting Bag and Tag), they always do it in Michigan first, which has turned out badly on occasion.

[Don Wright]

Also remember, that there are thousands of teams competing...times multiple events in many cases... FIRST is trying to make a policy that will generally work out for a high majority of the cases.

The handful, or 10-20-30...even 50 cases where the standard policy really doesn't seem to make sense or fit are really the minority (like the one the OP made). I know to you it seems obvious and silly, but FIRST has to take into account all the teams at all the competitions.

If the standard shipping/B&T policy fits OK to >95% of the cases during the season, I think it's a darn good job.