Go to Post And your other point, "why a debate over a nonexistent rule?". Its summer, we're not building robots, and we're geeks. What else are we supposed to do? - EHaskins [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > ChiefDelphi.com Website > Extra Discussion
CD-Media   CD-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 10 votes, 5.00 average. Display Modes
  #1   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 05-01-2011, 23:30
Ether's Avatar
Ether Ether is offline
systems engineer (retired)
no team
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Rookie Year: 1969
Location: US
Posts: 8,040
Ether has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond repute
Re: paper: 4 wheel independent drive & independent steering ("swerve")

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ether View Post

The simplest approach is to control each wheel's speed and angle separately: make each wheel angle go to that wheel's angle setpoint, and each wheel's speed go to that wheel's speed setpoint. For the drivetrain stipulated in the paper in Figure 1 (unlimited steering and continuous wheel angle sensor with no gaps) this may well be perfectly adequate - if the steering motors are powerful enough to provide satisfactory response against the given floor material and wheel tread material.
Just uploaded a description of how to calculate shortest-path angle error and how to use it with LabVIEW PID.

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/papers/download/2858



Last edited by Ether : 06-01-2011 at 11:23. Reason: fixed broken link
Reply With Quote
  #2   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 06-01-2011, 11:51
Ether's Avatar
Ether Ether is offline
systems engineer (retired)
no team
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Rookie Year: 1969
Location: US
Posts: 8,040
Ether has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond repute
Re: paper: 4 wheel independent drive & independent steering ("swerve")


Sorry, the link got broken when I uploaded a corrected version. Here's the new link:

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/papers/download/2858

Also, note that there are two different ways to connect the angle error signal to the LabVIEW PID:
1) Connect the error to the Setpoint input, and connect a constant zero to the ProcessVariable input. This is the way mentioned in the paper.

2) Connect the negative of the error (i.e. -error) to the ProcessVariable input, and connect a constant value of zero to the Setpoint input.
The first way effectively disables the "D" portion of the PID (which you probably don't need for this application anyway).

The second way allows the "D" action of the PID to be used, but in a way perhaps not intended by the designer of the PID, since it causes the PID to use the derivative of both the ProcessVariable and the Setpoint. The PID is designed to take the derivative of the ProcessVariable input only*, so using this second way may result in instability or other unexpected behavior.

* see this thread: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=88233



Last edited by Ether : 06-01-2011 at 16:49. Reason: added link
Reply With Quote
  #3   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 17-01-2011, 09:29
Ether's Avatar
Ether Ether is offline
systems engineer (retired)
no team
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Rookie Year: 1969
Location: US
Posts: 8,040
Ether has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond repute
Re: paper: 4 wheel independent drive & independent steering ("swerve")

I just posted a 2-page summary explanation for those who just want the equations and don't care about the derivation.


Reply With Quote
  #4   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 25-03-2011, 23:21
Ether's Avatar
Ether Ether is offline
systems engineer (retired)
no team
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Rookie Year: 1969
Location: US
Posts: 8,040
Ether has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond repute
Re: paper: 4 wheel independent drive & independent steering ("swerve")

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ether View Post
I just posted a 2-page summary explanation for those who just want the equations and don't care about the derivation.
There was a typo error in the fourth equation at the top of Page 2. It should read D = FWD + RCW*(W/R)

I corrected the typo, and updated the paper to use clockwise angles for the gyro and the wheel steering.


Reply With Quote
  #5   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 15-04-2011, 14:31
Ether's Avatar
Ether Ether is offline
systems engineer (retired)
no team
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Rookie Year: 1969
Location: US
Posts: 8,040
Ether has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond repute
Re: paper: 4 wheel independent drive & independent steering ("swerve")

Just added a very simple Excel spreadsheet to demonstrate the swerve wheel speed and steering angle calculations. Might be a useful teaching tool for mentors (or learning tool for students).

User inputs values into cells A1 thru A6. Spreadsheet calculates and displays wheel speed command and wheel steering angle command for each of the 4 wheels.



Last edited by Ether : 15-04-2011 at 14:34.
Reply With Quote
  #6   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 17-04-2011, 13:48
Ether's Avatar
Ether Ether is offline
systems engineer (retired)
no team
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Rookie Year: 1969
Location: US
Posts: 8,040
Ether has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond repute
Re: paper: 4 wheel independent drive & independent steering ("swerve")

see updated post

Last edited by Ether : 18-04-2011 at 12:10.
Reply With Quote
  #7   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 18-04-2011, 12:11
Ether's Avatar
Ether Ether is offline
systems engineer (retired)
no team
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Rookie Year: 1969
Location: US
Posts: 8,040
Ether has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond repute
Re: paper: 4 wheel independent drive & independent steering ("swerve")

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ether View Post
Just added a very simple Excel spreadsheet to demonstrate the swerve wheel speed and steering angle calculations. Might be a useful teaching tool for mentors (or learning tool for students).

User inputs values into cells A1 thru A6. Spreadsheet calculates and displays wheel speed command and wheel steering angle command for each of the 4 wheels.
For students who are visual learners, I updated the spreadsheet to add a graphical display of the wheel speeds and steering angles.

Input the vehicle's wheelbase and trackwidth into cells A1 and A2.

Input the forward, strafe_right, and rotate_clockwise commands into cells A4, A5, and A6.


As a point of interest, note that if you enter FWD=1, STR=0.3, and RCW=0.384, you get Ackermann steering.


In fact, for any values of FWD_Ackerman and Turn_Ackermann, if you input

Code:
FWD=FWD_Ackermann, 
STR=Turn_Ackermann*sign(FWD)
RCW=STR*sqrt(L^2+W^2)/L
...you will get Ackermann steering. The derivation of this relationship is shown in the PDF attachment "convert Ackermann commands to holonomic".


Or you can get front-wheel Ackermann steering when going forward and rear-wheel Ackermann steering when backing up if you enter:

Code:
FWD=FWD_Ackermann
STR=Turn_Ackermann
RCW=STR*sign(FWD)*sqrt(L^2+W^2)/L

Or you can get "snake" steering (both front and rear wheel steering) if you simply set STR=0 and use:

Code:
FWD=FWD_snake
RCW=Turn_snake*sign(FWD)




Last edited by Ether : 18-04-2011 at 17:12.
Reply With Quote
  #8   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 25-04-2011, 18:15
Ether's Avatar
Ether Ether is offline
systems engineer (retired)
no team
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Rookie Year: 1969
Location: US
Posts: 8,040
Ether has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond repute
Re: paper: 4 wheel independent drive & independent steering ("swerve")



Here's a handy "cheat sheet" for converting Cartesian coodinates to zero to 360 degrees, measured either clockwise or counterclockwise from any of the four quadrantal angles (0, 90, 180, 270):

convert Cartesian coordinates to angle



Last edited by Ether : 26-04-2011 at 10:28.
Reply With Quote
  #9   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 02-05-2013, 07:10
Clem1640's Avatar
Clem1640 Clem1640 is offline
Head Mentor
AKA: Clem McKown
FRC #1640 (Sab-BOT-age)
Team Role: Leadership
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Downingtown PA
Posts: 249
Clem1640 has a reputation beyond reputeClem1640 has a reputation beyond reputeClem1640 has a reputation beyond reputeClem1640 has a reputation beyond reputeClem1640 has a reputation beyond reputeClem1640 has a reputation beyond reputeClem1640 has a reputation beyond reputeClem1640 has a reputation beyond reputeClem1640 has a reputation beyond reputeClem1640 has a reputation beyond reputeClem1640 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: paper: 4 wheel independent drive & independent steering ("swerve")

We use a "minimum angle" algorithm to in our swerve code and reverse the drive direction as needed. This works out very well. We code in Labview. 1640 has built 4 wheel independent drive & steering swerve robots for 4 years.

Very clear paper. Thanks.
__________________


Clem McKown
Head Mentor - FRC 1640 & FTC 7314
Chairman - Downingtown Area Robotics
Reply With Quote
  #10   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-05-2013, 23:25
MoHottaMoBetta's Avatar
MoHottaMoBetta MoHottaMoBetta is offline
Mentor
AKA: Bruce Kahn
FRC #0842 (Falcon Robotics)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Rookie Year: 2011
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 12
MoHottaMoBetta is an unknown quantity at this point
Question Re: paper: 4 wheel independent drive & independent steering ("swerve")

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ether View Post

Sorry, the link got broken when I uploaded a corrected version. Here's the new link:

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/papers/download/2858
Unless its just my bad luck, it looks like the links are not working. Can anyone else access the sample LabVIEW file?

Bruce
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Autonomous Independent sparks-1784 NI LabVIEW 16 01-04-2010 09:11
periodic tasks in autonomous independent Ether NI LabVIEW 19 31-03-2010 07:15
Autonomous independent-watchdog errors ewoodring NI LabVIEW 2 20-03-2010 20:19
RC independent of the OI ajsetter Programming 6 30-03-2006 21:44
pic: Chantilly Academy's 4 Wheel Drive 4 Wheel Steering!!!! jskene Robot Showcase 25 18-02-2005 20:24


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:21.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi