Minibot

[Alex2614]

Originally Posted by EricH

If it misses, it's very dangerous. Then you throw in the deployment line rules.

Poof balls and soccer balls are meant to deform when they hit something or something hits them. If you threw a metal ball of similar weight, it would hurt more. And there is very little padding allowed by the Minibot rules. Imagine a latching device-say 1/2 lb--launched upwards to the target. That's some significant force (must be dealt with on the robot), plus if you miss, you not only have velocity but all the KE you have from the altitude. If you miss and there's a ref or robot right there, they'll probably move out of the way to avoid getting hit--if they can. Now your minibot hits the floor. It better be sturdy, and under <G46> and <G42>, you're liable to penalty as well.

If you miss, and I'm the head ref at the event, I'm probably going to call you on safety, too.

The risk ain't worth it.

If the minibot is connected to the tower the same way the ones at the kickoff were, but were deployed with the spring system, it would not detach from the tower, therefore eliminating all safety issues. If it is really light, it will not break the top.

[Superllama12]

We were debating this, and we raised this question; however, we came to the conclusion that if anything were left at the bottom at all, it would definitely exceed the 12" dimensions on the minibot. Good luck!

EDIT: Just found this in the rules:
<R101> If a MINIBOT is rejected by inspectors due to a safety issue or concern related to the team’s method of storing energy, the concerned items must be disabled or removed from the MINIBOT before it can compete in a MATCH. The team bears the burden of proof that such a rejection is not valid. Teams should be prepared to provide justifiable test data or calculations during inspection to support their design.

Storing energy in the form of pneumatic pressure or a spring to launch it is probably considered, as someone said before, a safety violation

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Stephie

i have a couple of other questions, my team n i dont have the rules yet due to the rest of the world try'n to get the rules all @ the same timeP:

*can we use external power for the minibot?
*what is the pole made out of?
*can you take only one minibot into the arena?
*is there a floor line that leads to the pole so we can line up a minibot?
*can we control the minibot via remote once released from the large robot?

if u can answer these questions for me that would b AWSOME!!!!

This is why the encrypted manual is released. It's so that you download it ahead of time and avoid the rush. Guess a lot of people missed that memo this year.

The answers can be found in Game Section 4, Game Section 2, unknown, Game Section 2, and Game Section 3.

In order, No attachment, but there is a battery allowed, Steel, unknown, Yes, Not if you want to get points, and there is a risk of hurting your entire alliance (Short version: If you don't get to the top, the first pole on your alliance is not counted)

[Grim Tuesday]

I think the biggest problem with spring loaded minibots are that there are no springs in the FTC KOP.

[Superllama12]

Sorry for having so many posts, but I just found a rule that PROHIBITS ANY LAUNCHING MECHANISM WITH STORED ENERGY INCLUDING PNEUMATICS, SPRINGS, AND OTHERS NOT MENTIONED!!!

[GaryVoshol]

Originally Posted by Superllama12

Sorry for having so many posts, but I just found a rule that PROHIBITS ANY LAUNCHING MECHANISM WITH STORED ENERGY INCLUDING PNEUMATICS, SPRINGS, AND OTHERS NOT MENTIONED!!!

Really? Then why are there rules about stored energy devices? (Blue box on <R01>, <R90>)

You should quote or cite any rules that support any conclusions you make.

[Grim Tuesday]

I don't see that rule.

The only rules that mention springs, explicitly allow them, unless deemed unsafe.

<R01> Energy used by FRC ROBOTS, (i.e., stored at the start of a MATCH), shall come only from
the following sources:
A. Electrical energy derived from the onboard 12V battery (see Rule <R34> for specifications
and further details).
B. Compressed air stored in the pneumatic system, stored at a maximum pressure of 120 PSI.
C. A change in the altitude of the ROBOT center of gravity.
D. Storage achieved by deformation of ROBOT parts.

Teams must be very careful when incorporating springs or other items to store
energy on their ROBOT by means of part or material deformation. A ROBOT may be
rejected at inspection if, in the judgment of the inspector, such items are unsafe.

[De_Code_Master]

In the introduction section of the manual, the definition of DEPLOYMENT is :

"DEPLOYMENT-- the act of positioning a MINIBOT on the TOWER. DEPLOYMENT starts when the MINIBOT breaks the vertical projection of the TOWER BASE circumference during the END GAME."

This seems to say that once it enters the platform, the minibot counts as being deployed if it is "positioned" or attached to the tower somehow. So if you interpret it that way, it means you can't shoot a minibot at the sensor, because it wouldn't get positioned on the tower. Just my $0.02. Someone on my team also suggested popping a little minibot out at the sensor, like a tennis ball machine, and this was my rebuttal.

[ThePeracha]

If it passes the whole pole up and just merely touches the sensor at the top, is that considered deployment? If it isn't, then won't we able to just launch at the sensor, considering they can withstand the force?

[Wendy Holladay]

What if you had a very, very light minibot that was clamped to the tower pole and launched upwards through some spring-based launcher on your hostbot. It would fly upward, connected to the pole, and then contact and trigger the top. Then it would fall back down the pole. Is that legal?

[EricH]

Quick hint: deployment above the deployment line is strictly illegal. So is intentionally detaching parts from your robot. So is doing unsafe things, quite possibly including launching hard metal/plastic objects 10 feet in the air.

[Bjenks548]

I think some people are confused. The robot is not launching the minibot from the ground to the top of the pole, merely from the bottom of the poll (after being attached) up to the top. I really don't see how this would be a safety issue and i can't find anything that says the minibot needs to climb the pole under its own power, instead of kinetic energy given to it from the now Hostbot.

[EricH]

Launching while clamped to the pole would probably be legal.

Practicality, however, depends on whether a) the launching method can get about 4N of force at the top and b) the minibot has to stay at the top or not.

[ThePeracha]

Originally Posted by EricH

Quick hint: deployment above the deployment line is strictly illegal. So is intentionally detaching parts from your robot. So is doing unsafe things, quite possibly including launching hard metal/plastic objects 10 feet in the air.

I hope they allow it. I mean, they probably didn't anticipate this but I hope they see the innovation here and allow. Plus, the way technology is going, we'll have flying parts soon enough anyway. Might as well start now.

[Chris is me]

Literally throwing the robot in the air, uncontrolled, is not going to work.

That being said..