FRC 2011: Logomotion [Initial Impressions]

[alectronic]

Originally Posted by synth3tk

Please don't compare this game to previous games, or claim how "lame" it IS, especially without having played it yet. If you think it sounds boring, that's OK. ... If you're tired, or lacking sleep, please, go get some.

Thank you! I feel this is important, because people do tend to compare things and make judgments. I think the GDC tests these more than we realize, and I am sure it will iron out well in the coming weeks...

Originally Posted by Alex Cormier

Horrible move on FIRST part that teams are close to required to purchase and acquire FTC parts to have a good shot at winning matches...

I disagree. I think it is cool to encourage the interaction, especially with the exiting ftc/frc connections. Please consider looking at the FIRSt Choice page, where you can get the FTC kit for free for your team. So for the most part, they don't "require" you to buy one.

[katiebelle]

Originally Posted by EricH

I REALLY hate the inspection rule.

For reference, <T03>:


Unless no-show teams are given a bye, there are going to be quite a few red cards handed out early on. And if there aren't enough inspectors to go around, there could be some teams hurt unintentionally.

I see why it's there, but the entire alliance?????? The penalty is TOO MUCH! You've never been DQ'd because of what your partner did before, except in eliminations!

In qualification matches, red cards are robot-specific. So only the specific team would recieve a red card. Only during finals matches would a red card ever be issued to an entire alliance, as I understand.

[BBnum3]

Originally Posted by Cyberphil

After reading the manual and finding out that defense is futile in qualification matches I was even more excited!

Where are you getting this from? Section 5.3.3 states that seeding will be based on Qualification Score, which has returned to its previous state of 2 points per win, 1 per tie, 0 per loss. So there's still the incentive to win your qualification matches, and therefore an incentive to play defense.

As for my opinion of the game, I really like it. I am excited to see the different ways teams climb the tower with the minibot. I think teams that dominated in 2007 will be at an advantage, but they are also susceptible to new teams using the old tried and true ways of scoring tubes.

I think that the endgame is insanely important. If your alliance gets the first two minibots, that's 50 points, so the other alliance can only get 25. Those 25 points are going to be almost impossible to make up using tubes alone.

Overall I'm very excited for this year's game.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by katiebelle

In qualification matches, red cards are robot-specific. So only the specific team would recieve a red card. Only during finals matches would a red card ever be issued to an entire alliance, as I understand.

You didn't read the rule, did you? You don't receive qualification and ranking points in eliminations. In other words, an elimination red card is being applied in qualifications for the case where a robot is not inspected.

[apalrd]

After reading the rules, we talked strategy and design (which is secret now.)

That said:
I really like the BaneBots thing (using up to 4 total BB motors, of any of the 4 types) although I think the RS550's will be the most popular since they have the highest power output (~250 watts, according to the FIRST specs). I also sorta like the uber-powerful FP motor (~290) watts), and fear for its life in competition (POOF!), although there is currently no source for it (AM dosen't have it).

I like the multiple but similar game pieces. We are very, very glad that our 2007 robot still works perfectly (the arm at least) because we just fixed it up for a parade. That said, the tubes in 2007 were all around bigger than these (the tubes at least) and the center diameter is much larger then than the triangles and squares now.

I like the mini-bot.

(now back to drawing robot mechanism ideas on paper)

[DJTech]

This is going to be a fun season, but a difficult one too. Vex and NXT can be used which makes it even more fun but once again, difficult. But the most difficult thing will be the minibot because its such a different thing.

[StormTrooperAV]

I agree. I'm really excited about throwing around some unusual ideas for the minibot. I think, this year, it may payoff to take a penalty or two in order to cash in on the big points that can come from the minibot.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by StormTrooperAV

I agree. I'm really excited about throwing around some unusual ideas for the minibot. I think, this year, it may payoff to take a penalty or two in order to cash in on the big points that can come from the minibot.

Depending on what the penalty is, of course. Getting the minibot going too soon results in zero points.

I like the game, but there are some rules that I don't like (or really like).

[chris janney]

thanks for clarifying how high up the mini-bot could be deployed from. also does anyone know if we would be allowed to use compressed air to shoot the minibot up the pole?

[StormTrooperAV]

Well, of course, I can't be TOO specific as to exactly what penalties I am referring to

But I agree with you completely about the rules. There rule book got a lot thicker this year, & personally, I don't approve of a lot of the restrictions.

[oddjob]

First impression, don't like the game at all. The logo array scoring is spectator unfriendly. Scoring will be unclear and games will end with no idea who has won until the official score is announced, not only because the logo scoring requires a rule book to tally but also the end of game bonus is relatively large. Positioning game pieces on a rack has no relevance to anything in the real world for most people.

For the participants, it will be challenging and fun as it always is when you are competing. In the grand scheme of broadening the appeal of FRC, this game is a step backwards from 2010 "soccer" and a huge disappointment.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by chris janney

thanks for clarifying how high up the mini-bot could be deployed from. also does anyone know if we would be allowed to use compressed air to shoot the minibot up the pole?

Depends. Can it be done within the pneumatics rules set forth in Game Section 4.3.11?

If so, then yes, provided that launching minibots is also legal. If not, then don't show up to competition with a device using compressed air to shoot minitbots up poles.

[Leav]

Originally Posted by apalrd

We are very, very glad that our 2007 robot still works perfectly (the arm at least) because we just fixed it up for a parade.

not sure what you mean by this, since you later mention thinking about ideas... just FYI: using mechanisms from old robots is not allowed. (some stuff is allowed, but I won't interpert the rules here.)

[Koko Ed]

Originally Posted by Leav

not sure what you mean by this, since you later mention thinking about ideas... just FYI: using mechanisms from old robots is not allowed. (some stuff is allowed, but I won't interpert the rules here.)

Oh darn!
And here I was thinking we could just bag our 2007 robot and take a nice seven week break til FLR.
Guess it's time to get to brainstorming.

[apalrd]

Originally Posted by Leav

not sure what you mean by this, since you later mention thinking about ideas... just FYI: using mechanisms from old robots is not allowed. (some stuff is allowed, but I won't interpert the rules here.)

Our 07 bot manipulates tubes, similar to this year's game pieces. We can look at what it did to score, and see how well it works for the new game pieces (which are very similar to the 07 tube).

We wouldn't use it, just look at how it works and see if we can use the stuff we learned back then again now.

That robot's arm is built of .030 aluminum tube, which is very thin. Analysis said it was very close to breaking, and after about 10 hours of play time it did. We repaired it, but it is still very, very close to catastrophic failure.