Ubertubes order of operations

[Grim Tuesday]

OK, so I was wondering, regarding the ubertubes, everyone has assumed that the "autonomous score" portion of them are not included in the logo bonus. However, this is not made clear in the rules (unless I am missing something).


Consider the following:

Three ubertubes are in a row, all placed on the top row during autonomous (impossible, but this is theoretical). That is 18 points. There are three pieces over them, making a full logo. Thats 9 points, doubled by the ubers to become 18. However, this is the tricky part. The logo bonus doubles all pieces on the rack, as stated in <G66>. 18+18 is 36. 36 doubled is 72. Thats a game winner right there.

<G66> If three LOGO PIECES form a LOGO, the assigned points from the SCORING PEGS in that
row of that SCORING GRID are given as an additional LOGO BONUS, effectively doubling
the score of the row.

Completely unrelated question, that is best made by illustrating. Is this a logo? They are three, consecutive, horizontal pieces in the TRIANGLE CIRCLE SQUARE arrangement. If these were, then the 72 point strategy could be within reach.

[GaryVoshol]

Your picture is not a LOGO:

LOGO – a series of LOGO PIECES on the same row of a single SCORING GRID in the order of TRIANGLE-CIRCLE-SQUARE when read from left to right on a single row while looking at a SCORING GRID from the FIELD.

As far as what is doubled, that's still up for debate. It could be read that only the LOGO PIECES are doubled.

[Grim Tuesday]

Ah alright, though il keep that part of it around in case anyone else has the same question.

[smurfgirl]

I didn't think ubertubes doubled their own value -

<G65> The PEG SCORE is the sum of points determined by the positions of the GAME PIECES on each SCORING GRID. A LOGO PIECES HANGING in front of an UBERTUBE doubles the points for that SCORING PEG. The table below gives the value for each GAME PIECE HANGING on a SCORING PEG.

LOGO PIECE:
Alone Over UBERTUBE
Not HANGING
0 points 0 points
HANGING on bottom ROW
1 point 2 points
HANGING on middle ROW
2 points 4 points
HANGING on top ROW
3 points 6 points

[Grim Tuesday]

Originally Posted by smurfgirl

I didn't think ubertubes doubled their own value - or you could view their 2, 4, 6 point values as having built-in doubling.

Each ubertube is worth 6 points, 6*3 is 18. 18 is added to the score that was made from having three pieces on the top, 9 points. Those 9 are doubled due to the ubertube, making 18. Then the two 18's are added, creating 36, which is then doubled due to the three making a logo.

My math stands

[Basel A]

Originally Posted by Grim Tuesday

Each ubertube is worth 6 points, 6*3 is 18. 18 is added to the score that was made from having three pieces on the top, 9 points. Those 9 are doubled due to the ubertube, making 18. Then the two 18's are added, creating 36, which is then doubled due to the three making a logo.

My math stands

We had a 45 minute argument about this. I can't recall the specific rules, but essentially, logos do not affect ubertubes, and ubertubes do not affect logos. They eah only affect game pieces.

[Nuttyman54]

My understanding is that ubertubes never have a point value themselves during teleop. The ONLY place they give points is in the autonomous period, per rule <G64>. Ubertubes are never given an explicit point value anywhere except in autonomous mode, therefore there is no point value to double from the logo bonus. Likewise, logo pieces do not have a point value given in the autonomous score, because they cannot be placed then.

[SteveGPage]

Originally Posted by Grim Tuesday

Each ubertube is worth 6 points, 6*3 is 18. 18 is added to the score that was made from having three pieces on the top, 9 points. Those 9 are doubled due to the ubertube, making 18. Then the two 18's are added, creating 36, which is then doubled due to the three making a logo.

My math stands

<G64> only applies in the autonomous mode. So the 6 point value of the ubertubes is only calculated then.
<G65> Peg scoring only utilizes the ubertubes as a positional multiplier on the logo piece.
<G66> Only applies the complete logo bonus on the peg scoring calculation.

Best case: Your alliance manages to get three ubertubes on the top row of one scoring grid in the autonomous mode. (18 points) Then the alliance scores three logo pieces on each position (3*2 = 6 each, or 6*3 = 18 for the row) Then applying the bonus of 2* row score (2*18 = 36). This still doesnt change your potential max score for both grids of 108, so the effort of placing all the ubertubes in a single row, unless this is the only row you plan on completing, adds no real value.

Steve

[MagiChau]

<G64> This defines the "AUTONOMOUS SCORE" this is a score created by the ubertube positions. No where does it say ubertubes may only count for this. Though if my <G66> interpretation is false, then yes ubertube is only calculated in this.

<G65> This defines the "PEG SCORE" this is a score created by logo pieces position. Ubertubes are only mentioned as doubling a scoring peg's value.

<G66> This defines the "LOGO BONUS" this is a multiplier on the assigned points from the scoring pegs,

SCORING PEG(PEG) - one of nine round, horizontal pieces on each SCORING GRID. Each PEG can hold up to two GAME PIECES.

As I see this the assigned points are all the points assigned to each scoring peg in that row are effectively doubled.
As the AUTONOMOUS SCORE had points assigned to that peg, I see it as counting.

Though the "effectively doubling the score of the row" <G66> does point to intend ubertubes not counting but as it says effectively I will say this is not an absolute law, therefore just an observation of what the Game Designing Committee saw in the effect of the LOGO BONUS.

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by Basel A

We had a 45 minute argument about this. I can't recall the specific rules, but essentially, logos do not affect ubertubes, and ubertubes do not affect logos. They eah only affect game pieces.

Ubertube score: Standalone

Logo score: tube Score (which could be modified by the presence of an ubertube) x 2

So a top row with 1 uber

6 + (3+3+6)*2 = 30

[SteveGPage]

Originally Posted by ZonChau

<G66> This defines the "LOGO BONUS" this is a multiplier on the assigned points from the scoring pegs, As I see this the assigned points are all the points assigned to each scoring peg in that row are effectively doubled.
As the AUTONOMOUS SCORE had points assigned to that peg, I see it as counting.

I believe this would be a great question for the GDC. It appears that since <G65> defines 'The PEG SCORE is the sum of points determined by position of the GAME PIECES ..." and the ubertubes is a defined GAME PIECE, and since <G64> The AUTONOMOUS SCORE is the sum of points determined by position of the ALLIANCE UBERTUBES ..." I could see how there could be confusion on exactly what is the "sum" of points.

My guess, and it is just that - a guess - is that since you get a doubling effect from the ubertubes, they wouldn't allow you to "double dip" and get points for also its autonomous mode points. This is exactly the kind of question that the GDC should clarify.

[A-marie]

The note under <G65> states that after the autonomous period an Ubertube acts only as a modifier and carries no point value of its own.