Do minibots need to stay at the top of the pole?

[Waffles]

Originally Posted by blayde5

You could potentially use surgical tubing/rubber bands to launch the minibot part of the way up as well.

If I read correctly though, you must deploy below the marked section of the pole which from the base is an 18" zone.

[nighterfighter]

Originally Posted by Waffles

If I read correctly though, you must deploy below the marked section of the pole which from the base is an 18" zone.

Yes, but I believe what he is saying, is to use those to give it a boost.

[princessnatalie]

But wouldn't "giving a boost" be illegal? Because it states;

<G19> After DEPLOYMENT, MINIBOTS must remain completely autonomous.

And Deployment is defined as;

DEPLOYMENT – the act of positioning a MINIBOT on a TOWER. DEPLOYMENT starts when the MINIBOT breaks the vertical projection of the TOWER BASE circumference during the END GAME. (Related form, DEPLOY, verb)

Which to my understanding is as soon as the mini bot or deployment like device is anywhere over the base.

--
I was trying to figure this out as well, and it seems kind of confusing.

[Stephen of REX]

Well what if you created a "jumping bean" minibot. You set it, and it uses rubber bands or surgical tubing to "jump" to the top without necessarily gripping the pole.

[blayde5]

Originally Posted by princessnatalie

But wouldn't "giving a boost" be illegal? Because it states;

<G19> After DEPLOYMENT, MINIBOTS must remain completely autonomous.

And Deployment is defined as;

DEPLOYMENT – the act of positioning a MINIBOT on a TOWER. DEPLOYMENT starts when the MINIBOT breaks the vertical projection of the TOWER BASE circumference during the END GAME. (Related form, DEPLOY, verb)

Which to my understanding is as soon as the mini bot or deployment like device is anywhere over the base.

--
I was trying to figure this out as well, and it seems kind of confusing.

Launching the mini bot from the hostbot is a little.. erm sketch. I was more referring to the mini bot having its own energy storage device and using that somehow to propel itself up.

[princessnatalie]

Originally Posted by blayde5

Launching the mini bot from the hostbot is a little.. erm sketch. I was more referring to the mini bot having its own energy storage device and using that somehow to propel itself up.

Hahaha, my bad(:
But thats how I was thinking of doing it. A springloaded or pnuematic loaded base that the minibot sits on and after it attatches to the pole, the springs or whatever get 'launched'.

[AlexD744]

Quoting Violation for rule <G20>, not the rule itself. "TOWER is disabled if MINIBOT is DEPLOYED above the DEPLOYMENT LINE."

[Mark Sheridan]

Originally Posted by AlexD744

Quoting Violation for rule <G20>, not the rule itself. "TOWER is disabled if MINIBOT is DEPLOYED above the DEPLOYMENT LINE."

Reading also the definition of DEPLOYMENT:

DEPLOYMENT – the act of positioning a MINIBOT on a TOWER. DEPLOYMENT starts when the MINIBOT breaks the vertical projection of the TOWER BASE circumference during the END GAME. (Related form, DEPLOY, verb)

It seems that it could be possible to launch a minibot outside the vertical projection of the tower base and above the deployment line as long as the hostbot lets go of the minibot before the minibot breaks the projection. If this is true, then I figure it would much easier to launch the minibot at top of the hostbot since the distance to the sensor would be much less.

Does this seem legal? I feel this is not in the spirit in the game but as far as I can tell it seems legal but perhaps technically difficult to achieve.

[Stephen of REX]

Yes but what if the minibot can jump under it's own power by means of stretched tubing?

[Randy Picolet]

"MINIBOT RACE – a competition in which MINIBOTS are DEPLOYED, climb the TOWER, and TRIGGER the TARGET. The MINIBOT RACE begins at the start of the END GAME."

"climb" would be the operative word here, I think... Rational engineering understanding would not try to lawyer that into fly, toss, etc. It's a climbing race, pure and simple.

"DEPLOYMENT – the act of positioning a MINIBOT on a TOWER. DEPLOYMENT starts when the MINIBOT breaks the vertical projection of the TOWER BASE circumference during the END GAME. (Related form, DEPLOY, verb)"

"positioning a MINIBOT on a TOWER"... I would also interpret that as disallowing applying any momentum to the minibot. "Positioning on" clearly implies simple placement (on the climbing pole).

Finally, the POLE is 10 feet tall; if the minibot doesn't climb back down on its own, you will either have to have a retrieval pole or have the field reset people get it down for you (not good).

I think any attempt to do anything other than climb the tower and come back down (without damaging the target!) will either be explicitly disallowed by Q&A or result in yellow/red flag...

[marwahaha]

based on my understanding of the game manual and others' posts, the minibot must trigger a plate system, requiring 2-4 newtons for the lower plate to raise at least 1/4". The upper plate is probably for stability and compression purposes (2.2.5, 4th paragraph).

As was stated earlier (definition of Triggered, ch.1):
"When as target is triggered, the minibot race on that tower is complete."

Once the sensor is tripped, it is irrelevant what the minibot does, as long as it doesn't break tele-op rules and can get down so referees don't have to and possibly penalize you for it <G59>: One thought is to have a limit switch on the top of your minibot, triggering a downward climb of the minibot.

be careful of <G42> which says "Robots, minibots, or hostbots may not intentionally detach parts or leave mechanisms on the field (with the exception of appropriate deployment of the minibot)." No parachute jump off.

As for the energy equivalent. Energy can only be stored as follows <R01>:

Electrical Energy
Compressed Air (120PSI max)
Change in altitude of robot center of gravity
storage achieved by deformation of robot parts. (i.e. spring compression)

End Game rule <G19> says:
" After deployment, minibots must remain completely autonomous."

Again, as <G42> states, you can only detach pieces as per appropriate Deployment of a minibot, which is defined as:
"Act of positioning a minibot on a tower. deployment starts when the minibot breaks the vertical projection of the tower base circumference."

FIRST
has made clear when deployment starts, but not when deployment ends. IF deployment has not ended until the hostbot and minibot have separated, then using springs or pneumatics to launch the minibot (with stored energy) is perfectly legal (as long as they're safe). The energy transferred to the minibot will be from storage of the hostbot springs, and will be autonomous ONLY AFTER separation. From an energy standpoint, launching a minibot is legally autonomous. In essence, the question to be addressed is specifically when deployment ends. If climbing the tower seems to include "jumping bean bots" that don't actually touch the tower, then a bot that is launched up the tower is also "climbing."

I like the idea of launching the minibot from the hostbot: However, we just completed our projectile launchers from physics class. The most powerful device was an air cannon using pneumatics and a cylindrical shooter, it shot a racquetball over 70 horizontal feet. Just some ideas..

[Randy Picolet]

Originally Posted by marwahaha

FIRST
has made clear when deployment starts, but not when deployment ends.

Deployment "ends" when the minibot is "positioned on" the tower, by definition. Autonomous for the minibot starts immediately, you can't do anything after that to help it out. My take....

[ATannahill]

Originally Posted by Randy Picolet

Deployment "ends" when the minibot is "positioned on" the tower, by definition. Autonomous for the minibot starts immediately, you can't do anything after that to help it out. My take....

Your take means nothing. Either cite the manual or an official source.

[yujason007]

<R101>If a MINIBOT is rejected by inspectors due to a safety issue or concern related to the team’s method of storing energy, the concerned items must be disabled or removed from the MINIBOT before it can compete in a MATCH. The team bears the burden of proof that such a rejection is not valid. Teams should be prepared to provide justifiable test data or calculations during inspection to support their design.

I'm sure they can easily use that rule to disqualify any robot using "unsafe" methods of energy storage.

[Randy Picolet]

Originally Posted by rtfgnow

Your take means nothing. Either cite the manual or an official source.

I'm sure you simply meant that my opinion doesn't count any more than anyone else's, and I would completely agree. I did cite the manual in a slightly earlier post in this thread (and in a couple of other related threads), and did not wish to paste in yet again. Clearly, the only opinions that count are the rulings of the GDC, but the point here is to share/discuss our opinions until we can get clarification. Otherwise, why bother with the thread at all?

If you disagree with my take on an issue, that's great. I'd like to hear your reasoning if you want to elaborate. Maybe you can change my mind, maybe I can change yours, maybe we can come up with an approach that includes both our viewpoints, or maybe we'll both turn out to be partially right and wrong...