How Many Round Trips Can a Team Make?

[KrazyCarl92]

Unless a team plans on relying on others dropping game pieces, it will be necessary to go all the way across the field to get pieces from the HPs and then go all the way back over to score them at the alliance wall. So how many times do you think teams will be able to go back and forth to complete a round trip during a match???

My guess is 5 in a two minute practice period, but in-game I think 3 would be most realistic and 4 would be and good match.

My reason being about 10 fps on average so about 6 seconds for going across the field each way(12).

Then it will never be a straight shot b/c you go from center to corner and back. So I estimate an extra 5 seconds total (5).

Then a team must retrieve the game pieces and probably possess them somehow, 3 seconds a rough average, maybe 1 for those elite teams (3)?

Then teams must also place the pieces which I could see the elite teams doing in 2 seconds, but the average being about 7, but the extra time can be built into other teams trying to pin the elite teams (7).

12 + 5 + 3 + 7 = 27 seconds for a trip...

which works out to 4 remainder 12 seconds left. So if we consider an elite team and they have a great match, I'd say 4 and then time for Minibot action (if that is their strategy). Although I think most teams will land in either 3 trips in a good match, 2 in a poor/well defended match, and many may find themselves making tradeoffs to either complete a logo or go for the minibot at the very end.

Of course, this time-task analysis is all considering that other teams aren't conveniently dropping tubes, but it can reveal a lot about what an individual robot can realistically accomplish on its own in a single teleop. Or maybe that a viable strategy is to have one robot shuttle/ferry pieces from the feeder to the alliance zone to facilitate "hangers".

[ATannahill]

I would say at most 18, since thats how many game pieces there are.

You also have to remember that Woodie said (and the manual confirmed) game pieces can be thrown over the driver station wall.

[Grim Tuesday]

You also discount defenders, and robots that are capable of "throwing" pieces.

[MagiChau]

To me it seems more optimal to have 2 shuttles, assuming the robot will be fast enough that it can evade a single robot, then if you are double teamed there would be another shuttle to run pieces to the hanger.

I am confident this will get in at least I don't know 5-6 trips in? Maybe 9 if its a good game.

[Cyberphil]

Lets see:

At our max speed of 16 fps, so 3.75s across the field ideally (Using 60 feet across the field)

Plus interaction with other robots (probably 5 seconds on average)

Plus picking up the game piece (4 realistically)

Plus Driving back

Plus Placing the piece (Hopefully 3 sec?)

Does 24 seconds sound good? These are realistic, average values also. Nothing for best and worst match yet...

[Grim Tuesday]

What we need to figure out is how much interference a defending robot can create. If its around 5 seconds each one way, then that lowers a robot's efficiency by almost 30%.

[GBIT]

As posted on my teams forums earlier by a team member:


A few thoughts:

To get a perfect score, each team on the alliance would need to get and place a tube every 18 seconds (assuming 15 seconds at the end for minibot missions).

If you look at each robot placing a tube every 29 seconds, the best raw score is a 28 (6 hi, 5 medium)

In our human player simulations, the best match we turned in was 9 tubes. ( 9 tubes is each alliance robot placing a tube every 35 seconds). The best raw score for 9 tubes is 24 (6 hi, 3 medium).

If we can't do a high placement, the best score we can achieve in teleop mode with 9 tubes is 15 (6 med, 3 lo). This is the same score as placing 5 tubes, all hi. at 63 seconds per tube.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Human players can throw over the player station.
<G57> During the TELEOPERATED PERIOD, FEEDERS may enter LOGO PIECES onto the FIELD by using the FEEDING SLOTS or by throwing the LOGO PIECE over the top of the FEEDER STATION wall. LOGO PIECES may not be thrown around the side of the FEEDER STATION wall. Violation: PENALTY

[Tetraman]

Originally Posted by Al Skierkiewicz

Human players can throw over the player station.
<G57> During the TELEOPERATED PERIOD, FEEDERS may enter LOGO PIECES onto the FIELD by using the FEEDING SLOTS or by throwing the LOGO PIECE over the top of the FEEDER STATION wall. LOGO PIECES may not be thrown around the side of the FEEDER STATION wall. Violation: PENALTY

Yea. I kinda wish this rule wasn't there, but it is.

This allows for teams to pick up from the floor, not needing to always to head to the player station...but the biggest thing is that this will lead to Redabots stealing the thrown tubes from the Blueabot human player. Risky move, but it will help cut down on time.

Human players will have to train in throwing techniques so they don't accidentally throw a tube into the opponent's scoring zone. That would be very bad.

[Alex Cormier]

Also, will the tubes be placed back into the field of play where exited?

[Vikesrock]

Originally Posted by Alex Cormier

Also, will the tubes be placed back into the field of play where exited?

Yes, see <G35>

<G35> GAME PIECES that exit the FIELD will be placed back on the FIELD approximately at the point of exit, at the earliest safe opportunity, by FIELD staff.

[MagiChau]

Originally Posted by Tetraman

Yea. I kinda wish this rule wasn't there, but it is.

This allows for teams to pick up from the floor, not needing to always to head to the player station...but the biggest thing is that this will lead to Redabots stealing the thrown tubes from the Blueabot human player. Risky move, but it will help cut down on time.

Human players will have to train in throwing techniques so they don't accidentally throw a tube into the opponent's scoring zone. That would be very bad.

I think there's an additional benefit of a smaller time frame of your opponents can be alerted to your attempt to receive a logo tube. This probably requires your feeder to be able to not just accurately throw but to be able to time. Hopefully teams will be able to provide a rough estimate of how their robot can go so the feeder will be able to time no matter what robot it is.

[Jon Stratis]

Originally Posted by GBIT

As posted on my teams forums earlier by a team member:


A few thoughts:

To get a perfect score, each team on the alliance would need to get and place a tube every 18 seconds (assuming 15 seconds at the end for minibot missions).

If you look at each robot placing a tube every 29 seconds, the best raw score is a 28 (6 hi, 5 medium)

In our human player simulations, the best match we turned in was 9 tubes. ( 9 tubes is each alliance robot placing a tube every 35 seconds). The best raw score for 9 tubes is 24 (6 hi, 3 medium).

If we can't do a high placement, the best score we can achieve in teleop mode with 9 tubes is 15 (6 med, 3 lo). This is the same score as placing 5 tubes, all hi. at 63 seconds per tube.

You might want to double check your math... specifically, with regards to <G66>:

If three LOGO PIECES form a LOGO, the assigned points from the SCORING PEGS in that row of that SCORING GRID are given as an additional LOGO BONUS, effectively doubling the score of the row.

With that rule, the point values can be a lot higher... and that's what most teams will attempt while placing their tubes.

Also, don't forget the Ubertubes! In addition to scoring points for themselves, they score points for anything placed over them, per <G65>

The PEG SCORE is the sum of points determined by the positions of the GAME PIECES on each SCORING GRID. A LOGO PIECES HANGING in front of an UBERTUBE doubles the points for that SCORING PEG. The table below gives the value for each GAME PIECE HANGING on a SCORING PEG.

So, if we take your best case scenario above:

If you look at each robot placing a tube every 29 seconds, the best raw score is a 28 (6 hi, 5 medium)

Add 3 Ubertubes to the top row and line up the logo's 3 times, you'll end up with a total of 82 points!


The question posed in this thread is a very important one. The number of tubes placed has a huge impact on what portion of the game is most important. Placing a minibot can score up to 30 points... in order for a single robot (with no help from its alliance members at all) to get that, it has to place an uber tube and 3 regular tubes that form a logo, all on the top row.

[JHammond]

> You might want to double check your math... specifically, with regards to <G66>:


Please note that the original calculation was a "Raw" teleop score, without adjustments made by Ubertubes or making logos.

Of course those increase the total score (the Adjusted teleop score), but they seem to do so in a linear fashion with respect to placing tubes on the top, middle, or bottom.

[1168Programmer]

So, if we take your best case scenario above:


Add 3 Ubertubes to the top row and line up the logo's 3 times, you'll end up with a total of 82 points!

Is it legal to put more than one logo on a row? If it is, this math makes sense. If not, then 36 is the max you could score on the top row. Which is it?