Pneumatic Storage Tanks in 2011

[Bochek]

I cant seem to find anywhere in the manual where it limits then number or size of pneumatic storage tanks,

Can anyone confirm this?

Thanks
- Bochek

[big1boom]

The rules this year are very lax for pneumatics. As of now, cylinders and storage tanks are not limited.

FIRST may release a pneumatics supplement sometime soon like they have done for the past couple years.

[JHammond]

It seems like the rules are a big vague WRT to tanks.

<R65> To satisfy multiple constraints associated with safety, consistency, robot inspection, and constructive innovation, no pneumatic parts other than those explicitly permitted by the Pneumatic System Rules may be used on the ROBOT.

<R66> In addition to the items included in the KOP, pneumatic system items specifically permitted on 2011 FRC ROBOTS include the following items...

The elaborated list does not say anything about tanks, but neither does rule <R67> explicitly prohibit additional tanks.

A strict reading of these rules would lead me to conclude we can only use the tank (a bigger one this year) provided in the KOP. A loose reading of these rules would indicate we can use as many tanks as we want, assuming they support a working pressure of 125PSI and a burst pressure of 250 PSI.

Also, is <R74> new this year? I could swear I saw this sort of design implemented on a few robots last year.

Thanks!

Jeffrey

[Vikesrock]

Originally Posted by JHammond

Also, is <R74> new this year? I could swear I saw this sort of design implemented on a few robots last year.

Yes, there was no rule like this in the past couple manuals.

[Bochek]

Originally Posted by JHammond

<R66> In addition to the items included in the KOP, pneumatic system items specifically permitted on 2011 FRC ROBOTS include the following items...

The elaborated list does not say anything about tanks, but neither does rule <R67> explicitly prohibit additional tanks.

A strict reading of these rules would lead me to conclude we can only use the tank (a bigger one this year) provided in the KOP. A loose reading of these rules would indicate we can use as many tanks as we want, assuming they support a working pressure of 125PSI and a burst pressure of 250 PSI.

After re-reading that part, i seem to agree that we are only allowed the one larger sized storage tank.

[Vikesrock]

I agree with the conclusion that, as written, the rules appear to allow only the single tank from the KOP to be used or an additional tank if acquired through FIRST Choice.

Given the availability through FIRST Choice, my belief is that the rules will be amended as necessary to allow additional air storage tanks. The limit of a single solenoid valve per movement (<R74>) limits the power level of any individual cylinder motion so limiting the max storage volume was likely seen as unnecessary.

*Note that most of the above is opinion, interpretation or speculation and should not be taken as robot legal advice*

[pfosx]

if i'm not mistaken, the storage tank that is available through FIRST Choice is the same as from the 2010 KoP.
The FIRST Choice tank is smaller than the 2011 KoP tank... so, naturally a team would not use the FIRST Choice tank instead of the 2011 KoP tank.

Which leads me into thinking multiple tanks are allowed, how many... i guess we'll have to wait on a ruling.

[Bochek]

Are the first Q+A forums open yet? if so can someone link me to them, and i will post this question to them.

[Vikesrock]

Originally Posted by Bochek

Are the first Q+A forums open yet? if so can someone link me to them, and i will post this question to them.

Nope, I don't see them up yet. If past years are any indicator they will open up on Wednesday.

[Tristan Lall]

Unfortunately, this seems to be correct—the rules make no mention of cylinders or tanks (or synonyms) as being among the set of non-kit allowable pneumatics parts.

I have to assume this is an oversight.

[IndySam]

If we are only allowed the one tank we will be severely handicapped this year almost to the point of pneumatics being useless.

If we are unlimited in storage then wahoooo!!

[hg273]

The blue box under <R69> reads "The compressor may be mounted on the ROBOT, or it may be left off the ROBOT and used to pre-charge compressed air in the storage tanks prior to bringing the ROBOT onto the FIELD. (emphasis mine). Additionally, <R70> says Only the compressor,relief valve,pressure switch,pressure vent plug valve,pressure gauge, storage tanks, tubing, and connecting fittings may be in the high-pressure pneumatic circuit upstream from the regulator. (emphasis mine).

As I read it, we're allowed multiple tanks. I'm guessing that FIRST will release a correction, defining how many tanks may be used, but unless that's cleared up, there's no restriction.

I hope this helps!