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#76
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Re: FRC 2011: Logomotion [Initial Impressions]
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If two alliances are balanced offensively, some good, smart defense would be prudent to slow the other side down just enough to pull out a victory. Denial and delay of game piece acquisition is where I'd begin.Keep in mind though that the ranking score for the winning alliance is based on the losing alliance's unpenalized score, and the ranking score is the first tiebreaker in determining final team seeding, so it still behooves the winning alliance to permit some scoring by the opposition. Quote:
's. All hail the glorious annihilation of the 2010 scoring system and the various goofball strategies it spawned.I, too like bringing the different levels closer together. In fact, there's an FLL team in Canton our NEOFRA FRC teams helped kick off who developed some nice line following algorithms this year. And there's an FTC team at our local vocational school who could be instrumental in assisting all the local NEOFRA teams in minibot development. I think I'll be checking in with both of them soon. ![]() Last edited by Travis Hoffman : 09-01-2011 at 04:44. |
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#77
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Re: FRC 2011: Logomotion [Initial Impressions]
I think we may see a pattern forming within the next few years of FRC.
08 - Overdrive (Nascar) 09 - Lunacy 10 - Breakaway (Soccer) 11 - Logomotion Since 08, it seems that every other years has been a sports related game. <-- i know there have only been two, but its still intriguing. Making the games play out more like real sports is obviously to make the competitions more viewer friendly and easier to understand. I do agree that it seemed like an unwise move to design a competition that isn't easy for non-FRC spectators to follow, but after putting some thought into the other previous competitions i think its just a pattern. Perhaps competitions like Lunacy and Logomotion are designed more for the entertainment of the teams. Regardless, i'm looking forward to this years challenge and i think that the competition will be fierce as ever. Last edited by Sean Raia : 09-01-2011 at 10:00. |
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#78
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Re: FRC 2011: Logomotion [Initial Impressions]
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Steve |
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#79
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Re: FRC 2011: Logomotion [Initial Impressions]
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So basically, if you cannot outscore the opponent, you can try to prevent them from scoring, which means one (or more) of your robots will be used to play defense against the other team, which makes it harder for your team to score because you only have 2 (or 1) robot trying to score at all times. Defense will be vital in the finals, but to get seeded the highest in qualifications, you should try to get your opponents score to go as high as possible if you are winning, and try to get your score as high as possible if you are losing. Basically, if you just try to score, you are helping every one of the teams in respect to ranking points. Yes, this is just talking about ranking points, but it is another thing you have to take into account for during the competitions. I agree that winning the match should be your first priority, and I think some teams will play defense no matter what. It will be interesting to see how the matches actually turn out.... |
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#80
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Re: FRC 2011: Logomotion [Initial Impressions]
Just as a general impression, I do feel that there is too much emphasis on the endgame.
This is my fourth year as a member of my team, and I think out of all the competitions so far, Lunacy has been my favorite, followed by Breakaway. While I can't truly judge until the regional, so far this has been my least favorite game idea. While from a strategy perspective, I don't think there are that many options (although, I'm sure, I will be proved wrong), from a building perspective it looks pretty exciting with the minibot and the tubes. And there's something for us programmers too. It's still a good game, I'll wait and see if my overall opinion changes though. |
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#81
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Re: FRC 2011: Logomotion [Initial Impressions]
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As for my initial response, I had a total "tubes already?" moment at the start of kickoff. I was hoping for a different gamepiece...giant pucks perhaps? I think it will be a very interesting game this year, though I see veterans having a greater advantage here than before given the addition of the minibot. I think that the configuration of the rack in front of the player station is a huge mistake, and though it seems that the intent was to force the use of sensors and other means of navigation, it seems like there could have been more elegant means of accomplishing this - perhaps 1 rack above the player station, a medium height rack on the side of the field away from the audience, and short rack on the audience side? |
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#82
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Re: FRC 2011: Logomotion [Initial Impressions]
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However, the star of this year's game is the minibots. I remember the crowd's reaction to the minibot idea at the kickoff event at NOVI, and I think seeing somebody successfully score with a minibot for the first time will be amazing. |
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#83
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Re: FRC 2011: Logomotion [Initial Impressions]
I like this game. Or should I say, I prefer it over last year's. I hated the scoring system last year and it took us forever to think things up and our solutions stunk. This year is easier as it reflects on an older robot and introduces a mini-bot which is easier than a hook. I'm sure there is going to be an increase in need to communicate with your alliance to make use of the uber-toobs.
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#84
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Re: FRC 2011: Logomotion [Initial Impressions]
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And the lame ranking system from last year is being used for this game as well. |
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#85
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Re: FRC 2011: Logomotion [Initial Impressions]
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-------------- General impression: Autonomous is critical. Double-double score for logo-toprack-UBERTUBE? Yes, please! Endgame is critical. Potential +50 points for the winning two MINIBOTs? Yes, please! The rest of the game is critical. Potential for lots and lots of points by capitalizing on the autonomous successes, playing hard defense, and having great robots? Yes, please? I don't mean to sound like a fanboi, but a fanboi I am! Logomotion makes all three stages of the game absolutely critical to success... As well they should be! |
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#86
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Re: FRC 2011: Logomotion [Initial Impressions]
Ed, don't make me tell you to go read the manual. It's W-L-T, then ranking score (2X unpenalized loser's for the winner, penalized loser's for the loser, 2x alliance score for a tie).
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#87
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Re: FRC 2011: Logomotion [Initial Impressions]
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#88
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Re: FRC 2011: Logomotion [Initial Impressions]
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The ranking system is not being used this year besides as a tiebreaker to W-L-T |
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#89
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Re: FRC 2011: Logomotion [Initial Impressions]
Initial impressions of the game from myself and some of my fellow team members when the video started was, "eh seems a bit uninteresting." Then the minibots came out and we were all excited.
I don't like that FIRST is making it all about the FIRST brand. I get why they are, but Dean Kamen can't just say "it's not just about the robots" as an excuse as to why they're doing shameless branding. The whole point of last year was that FIRST was expanding to make it a "spectator sport" and I feel they're going backwards with this game. Personally I liked last year's game. The scoring system for seeding points was a little funky, but it was very enjoyable to watch. Of course, our robot basically didn't work at all, but we failed in a spectacular display of hisses as our shield, the only working part, popped open. That being said, the inability to defend once a team gets in the "safety zone" and the (seemingly obvious) strategy that people will just go from slot to scoreboard, makes the game a bit uninteresting. I think the minibot race at the end will be the most exciting bit of the game. I hope I'm wrong, like I was with lunacy, but that's to be decided. Personally I liked Overdrive or Breakaway the best, but hopefully Logomotion will be just as enjoyable. |
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#90
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Re: FRC 2011: Logomotion [Initial Impressions]
Remember, that is a distance of over 50 feet each way, in oncoming traffic.
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