FAQ for Q&A

[blhenze]

I've just looked at the manual about the Robot and although it speaks of the "Bumper Zone" I have not found where it describes where the actual bumper zone is. Is this in a revised manual?

bhenze@sapulpaps.org

[GaryVoshol]

Originally Posted by blhenze

I've just looked at the manual about the Robot and although it speaks of the "Bumper Zone" I have not found where it describes where the actual bumper zone is. Is this in a revised manual?

bhenze@sapulpaps.org

All the definitions for terms in ALL CAPS in the manual are in section 1.

[GaryVoshol]

More questions:

--- Are penalties called when you commit an action against another robot in your own alliance? Examples: pinning, taking away a piece that is in possession, touching a partner that is deploying, etc.

--- Who records the coopertition points? How does anyone know if a scoring minibot has been loaned by another team?

--- Does <R14> have any exemptions for fastener heads?

[EricH]

Updating the list to reflect TU#1.

1) Launching minibots--is it legal under a) free flight or b) tethered to the pole? Answered TU#1: illegal under both.

1) Minibots at the top of the pole: Do they have to stay there until after the match, or can they slide down during/after the match under their own power or via gravity to make retrieval easier?

2) Are you allowed to move your own tubes, other than ubertubes, around after they are in scoring position?

3) If a minibot is moving upwards at the end of a match, does it still get the 10 seconds to finish for points?

5) How many minibots can one hostbot deploy? Answered TU#1: one

4) NXT power, if used--is there some form of schematic or something? Assuming an NXT is used, are the internal batteries allowed power sources?

5) What methods are acceptable for removing the Minibot from the post? For example, could it drive itself down autonomously? Could someone bring a long pole out and activate something on the robot to make it come down?

6) For determination of "above the line" during deployment, is the top of the Minibot supposed to be below the line, or just the hostbot device?

8a) Are hostbots allowed to push the minibots upwards or towards the post, provided that this is done below the deployment line? Answered TU #1: No.

7) Pneumatics rules are unclear: How many and what type of a) storage tanks, b) cylinders, and c) other pneumatic actuators are allowed to be used on a robot?

8) Can a tube intentionally be placed over the minibot tower?

9) Does making a logo also double the score of any ubertubes under that logo? TU#1 says no

10) Who records the coopertition points? How does anyone know if a scoring minibot has been loaned by another team?

11) Does <R14> have any exemptions for fastener heads?

[Radical Pi]

What are the exceptions for objects/manipulators passing through the Bumper Zone?:

a) Is it legal for an arm to enter the bumper zone and not be protected by bumpers

b) Assuming (a) is legal, what if the object entering the bumper zone is not intended to manipulate a game piece (ex. wheels to support a larger structure which deploys from the starting configuration at some point during the match)

I (and a few other people here) have not found any rules that grant exceptions for manipulators (or anything else) to enter the bumper zone without bumpers appearing out of thin air.

Also #9 was addressed in TU#1 as well (it does not)

[DavidGitz]

Originally Posted by DavidGitz

To continue on this thread...
<R03> Custom circuits and COTS electronics are expressly prohibited if they:
A. Interfere with the operation of other ROBOTS.
B. Directly affect any output devices on the ROBOT.

ROBOT – ... ROBOT = HOSTBOT + MINIBOT
What (if there exists) requirements are there for the electrical (power and signal) systems of the MINIBOT?
i.e.
Is it legal to have a the required 12V FTC Battery on the MINIBOT, directly wired through switches to power wheels to CLIMB? (Assume not, for now)
If not, what requirements do we follow for power and signal distribution as the Power and Signal Distribution Diagrams can not obviously be followed for the MINIBOT.

Actually, as far as I can tell from Update #1, this question still stands and shouldn't be crossed off your summary list. It seems to me that, at least from reading the Blue Box in Section 4.3.15, that a MINIBOT should be able to pass the FTC inspection, which I assume has the answer to the question regarding signal and power distribution. However, is that the end-all rule, that they HAVE to be able to pass FTC inspection? I don't think so, so my question above remains.

[Alex Whipple]

I have another question.
How many licenses do we have for inventor this year in our kit of parts?

[CodeMonkeyMatt]

Concerning "3) If a minibot is moving upwards at the end of a match, does it still get the 10 seconds to finish for points?"

From the blue box of <G02>:

...At 10 seconds before the end of the MATCH, when HOSTBOTS may DEPLOY their MINIBOT without penalty, BASES will illuminate with the appropriate ALLIANCE color, while TARGET lights will show a green „chase‟ sequence. This chase sequence will continue until a MINIBOT TRIGGERS the TARGET, or time expires, whichever comes first. If a MINIBOT TRIGGERS the TARGET within the set time period, the TARGET light will illuminate to indicate in which place the MINIBOT finished....

To me, that is pretty clear. The chase sequence, and therefore the chance for a minibot to trigger the tower, ends when the clock hits 0. The mini-bot will certainly be able to continue climbing to hit the target, but it will not be able to trigger it to score points. Yes?

[EricH]

Originally Posted by DavidGitz

Actually, as far as I can tell from Update #1, this question still stands and shouldn't be crossed off your summary list. It seems to me that, at least from reading the Blue Box in Section 4.3.15, that a MINIBOT should be able to pass the FTC inspection, which I assume has the answer to the question regarding signal and power distribution. However, is that the end-all rule, that they HAVE to be able to pass FTC inspection? I don't think so, so my question above remains.

You aren't required to have the NXT on the Minibot. Therefore, you must be able to control the minibot some other way.

If the GDC comes out and says that the minibots have to pass FTC inspection, the uproar over requiring the FTC motors for vertical motion will be as nothing compared to the ensuing "virtual riots".

FYI: FTC inspection != Minibot inspection. Minibot inspection will check for size, weight, and legal parts. I'm sure FTC inspection is a bit more rigorous.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by CodeMonkeyMatt

Concerning "3) If a minibot is moving upwards at the end of a match, does it still get the 10 seconds to finish for points?"

From the blue box of <G02>:


To me, that is pretty clear. The chase sequence, and therefore the chance for a minibot to trigger the tower, ends when the clock hits 0. The mini-bot will certainly be able to continue climbing to hit the target, but it will not be able to trigger it to score points. Yes?

That blue box is not a rule. However: The rules (<G68>) CLEARLY state that objects in motion (which could easily include the minibots) have 10 seconds to come to rest or score. I've gone through this before. If that blue box is a rule, they're gonna have to resolve the discrepancy by either revising the blue box or by declaring an exception to the other rule for the Minibot.

The only way to resolve this is by asking them and pointing out the contradiction.

[DavidGitz]

Originally Posted by EricH

You aren't required to have the NXT on the Minibot. Therefore, you must be able to control the minibot some other way.

If the GDC comes out and says that the minibots have to pass FTC inspection, the uproar over requiring the FTC motors for vertical motion will be as nothing compared to the ensuing "virtual riots".

FYI: FTC inspection != Minibot inspection. Minibot inspection will check for size, weight, and legal parts. I'm sure FTC inspection is a bit more rigorous.

I understand, however, my question still remains as far as power distribution diagrams and rules (since the only rule that is specific here is that you have to use wire types as referenced from <R40>).

[EricH]

1) Minibots at the top of the pole: Do they have to stay there until after the match, or can they slide down during/after the match under their own power or via gravity to make retrieval easier?

2) Are you allowed to move your own tubes, other than ubertubes, around after they are in scoring position?

3) If a minibot is moving upwards at the end of a match, does it still get the 10 seconds to finish for points?

4) Assuming an NXT is used, are the internal batteries allowed power sources?

5) Wiring rules/conventions/schematics for Minibot--where are they, if there are any?

6) What methods are acceptable for removing the Minibot from the post? For example, could it drive itself down autonomously? Could someone bring a long pole out and activate something on the robot to make it come down?

7) For determination of "above the line" during deployment, is the top of the Minibot supposed to be below the line, or just the hostbot device?

8) Pneumatics rules are unclear: How many and what type of a) storage tanks, b) cylinders, and c) other pneumatic actuators are allowed to be used on a robot?

9) Can a tube intentionally be placed over the minibot tower?

10) Who records the coopertition points? How does anyone know if a scoring minibot has been loaned by another team?

11) Does <R14> have any exemptions for fastener heads?

12) What are the exceptions for objects/manipulators passing through the Bumper Zone?:

a) Is it legal for an arm to enter the bumper zone and not be protected by bumpers?

b) Assuming (a) is legal, what if the object entering the bumper zone is not intended to manipulate a game piece (ex. wheels to support a larger structure which deploys from the starting configuration at some point during the match)?

[CodeMonkeyMatt]

I realize that it's not a rule. However, I see no discrepency. Let's say they wait for the minibots to stop moving, and one of them hits the target. Correct me if I'm wrong, but <G68> says that scores will be tabulated after 10 seconds, not necessarily that all methods of scoring are available after 10 seconds, so I think that the minibot triggering the tower would not score.

I suppose that it could be misinterpreted, so we should ask the Q&A, but I would be surprised if they allowed minibots to score after the clock runs out.

Originally Posted by EricH

That blue box is not a rule. However: The rules (<G68>) CLEARLY state that objects in motion (which could easily include the minibots) have 10 seconds to come to rest or score. I've gone through this before. If that blue box is a rule, they're gonna have to resolve the discrepancy by either revising the blue box or by declaring an exception to the other rule for the Minibot.

The only way to resolve this is by asking them and pointing out the contradiction.

[boomergeek]

Originally Posted by EricH

It's still <G61>. NO PENALTY. Team 2 made a legitimate defensive maneuver, taking a gamble that they wouldn't be pushed in, and figuring that there would be no penalty if they did under <G61>. They lost the gamble. Still no <G61> penalty. It's legitimate defense.

Good defense: getting to where your opponent wants to go and trying to keep them out.

Great offense: Going to where you want to go despite any defense, doing what you were going to do there, and doing it again.

This answer of NO PENALTY makes sense, but... what is required to happens next?

Does the offense bot need to back up quickly and allow the defense robot to quickly exit the offense zone on the path it came in (assuming it can move in that direction) and would remain blocking the offensive bot's path into the zone?
(Thus, the defense bot "wins")

Or if the offensive robot does not back up but just waits, then is the Defensive robot going to be penalized for not clearing out of the offensive zone by skirting around the offense bot? (Thus, the offense bot "wins")

I expect this Sumo confrontation to happen quite often and the rules are not clear to as to obligations of the two opponents involved after the zone line is crossed by the defense bot under the pushing of the offense bot.

I'm not sure what the GDC has in mind for this one. Typically, questions are ruled with deference to offense. But I think this one is tricky.

I'm curious if there is an obvious answer in the manual or from previous years.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by CodeMonkeyMatt

I realize that it's not a rule. However, I see no discrepency. Let's say they wait for the minibots to stop moving, and one of them hits the target. Correct me if I'm wrong, but <G68> says that scores will be tabulated after 10 seconds, not necessarily that all methods of scoring are available after 10 seconds, so I think that the minibot triggering the tower would not score.

I suppose that it could be misinterpreted, so we should ask the Q&A, but I would be surprised if they allowed minibots to score after the clock runs out.

Last year's rules don't apply this year... but last year, multiple balls scored after the buzzer, simply because they were in motion.

There are two ways to look at this, and both have valid points. That's why it's one for Q&A.

boomer, I'll answer as best I can.
1) Nope, unless it's pinning.
2) Depends on maneuvering. If it clearly has the opportunity to try to exit and does not, then penalties would probably be thrown. However, if it's getting pushed around by the offense robot who is trying to score over it, no penalty (again, it's being forced into the situation). If you're the defense robot in this position, you need to be attempting to get out if you can. If you're not, the refs would probably be justified in throwing a penalty.