Go to Post FIRST always talks about grandmothers and making them proud. So FIRST---you made my grandmother proud. - Collin Fultz [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > Competition > Rules/Strategy
CD-Media   CD-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Closed Thread
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 09-01-2011, 16:36
GaryVoshol's Avatar
GaryVoshol GaryVoshol is offline
Cogito ergo arbitro
no team
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Rookie Year: 2000
Location: Royal Oak, MI
Posts: 5,762
GaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond repute
<G40>

Quote:
<G40> ROBOTS or HOSTBOTS may not exceed PLAYING CONFIGURATION at any time.
Violation: PENALTY
From the definitions:
Quote:
ROBOT – the composite electromechanical assembly designed and built by a FRC team to perform specific tasks when competing in the 2011 competition LogoMotion. The ROBOT must include all the basic systems required to be an active participant in the game – power, communications, control, mobility, and actuation. The ROBOT implementation must obviously follow a design approach intended to play the 2011 FRC game (e.g. a box of unassembled parts placed on the FIELD, or a ROBOT designed to play a different game, would not satisfy this definition). The ROBOT includes both the HOSTBOT and the MINIBOT (ROBOT = HOSTBOT + MINIBOT).
(emphasis mine)

Since the MINIBOT is a part of the ROBOT, does this mean that the HOSTBOT must remain close to the TOWER after DEPLOYING the MINIBOT? Else, <G40> would be violated.
__________________
(since 2004)
  #2   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 09-01-2011, 16:39
Dustin Shadbolt's Avatar
Dustin Shadbolt Dustin Shadbolt is offline
In a server room somewhere...
AKA: Dustin Shadbolt
FRC #1555 (Team PULSE)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Rookie Year: 2010
Location: Monticello,Indiana
Posts: 320
Dustin Shadbolt is on a distinguished road
Re: <G40>

I would believe that we would have to stay close. Since they defined it like they did. You might wanna Q&A once that gets going. They did stay near the towers during the animation (might help might not).
  #3   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 09-01-2011, 16:48
CalTran's Avatar
CalTran CalTran is offline
MST Rolla Senior
FRC #2410 (BV CAPS Metal Mustang Robotics)
Team Role: College Student
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Rookie Year: 2010
Location: Overland Park, Kansas
Posts: 2,419
CalTran has a reputation beyond reputeCalTran has a reputation beyond reputeCalTran has a reputation beyond reputeCalTran has a reputation beyond reputeCalTran has a reputation beyond reputeCalTran has a reputation beyond reputeCalTran has a reputation beyond reputeCalTran has a reputation beyond reputeCalTran has a reputation beyond reputeCalTran has a reputation beyond reputeCalTran has a reputation beyond repute
Re: <G40>

<G42> ROBOTS, MINIBOTS, or HOSTBOTS may not intentionally detach parts or leave MECHANISMS on the FIELD (with the exception of appropriate DEPLOYMENT of the MINIBOT)

<G47> From the start of the MATCH until it is DEPLOYED, the MINIBOT must remain on the HOSTBOT.

I believe, from the point the minibot is deployed, then it becomes a seperate entity of the robot. Thus, a robot may be able to move away from the tower once their minibot is deployed, and (at a stretch) may be able to score (via the scoring rack) again.
__________________
Team 2410 thinks KISSing is amazing! Keep It Super Safe!
  • "You know you've been in robotics too long when you start talking to your tools." "Well, you've been in robotics CLEARLY too long when they start talking back"
  • Theory is when you know everything but nothing works. Practice is when everything works but you don't know why. On our team, theory and practice comes together - nothing works and nobody knows why.
MMR 2410 Student (2010 - 2013) | MMR 2410 Mentor (2013 - Present)
FTC Game Announcer / EmCee (2014 - Present) | FRC EmCee (2015 - Present) | FRC Referee (2016) | FTC Referee (2017)
Academic Student (Forever)
  #4   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 09-01-2011, 18:23
DonRotolo's Avatar
DonRotolo DonRotolo is offline
Back to humble
FRC #0832
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Rookie Year: 2005
Location: Atlanta GA
Posts: 7,019
DonRotolo has a reputation beyond reputeDonRotolo has a reputation beyond reputeDonRotolo has a reputation beyond reputeDonRotolo has a reputation beyond reputeDonRotolo has a reputation beyond reputeDonRotolo has a reputation beyond reputeDonRotolo has a reputation beyond reputeDonRotolo has a reputation beyond reputeDonRotolo has a reputation beyond reputeDonRotolo has a reputation beyond reputeDonRotolo has a reputation beyond repute
Re: <G40>

Gary, I agree with your interpretation. They are specifically stating that a Robot may not exceed (60" cylinder) and Robot = Hostbot PLUS Minibot.

GDC Forum interpretation required
__________________

I am N2IRZ - What's your callsign?
  #5   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 10-01-2011, 13:12
GaryVoshol's Avatar
GaryVoshol GaryVoshol is offline
Cogito ergo arbitro
no team
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Rookie Year: 2000
Location: Royal Oak, MI
Posts: 5,762
GaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond repute
Re: <G40>

I found the answer to my own question. <R11-D> exempts MINIBOTS from both weight and size constraints of the whole ROBOT.
__________________
(since 2004)
  #6   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 10-01-2011, 13:34
AllenGregoryIV's Avatar
AllenGregoryIV AllenGregoryIV is offline
Engineering Coach
AKA: Allen "JAG" Gregory
FRC #3847 (Spectrum)
Team Role: Coach
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Rookie Year: 2003
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,569
AllenGregoryIV has a reputation beyond reputeAllenGregoryIV has a reputation beyond reputeAllenGregoryIV has a reputation beyond reputeAllenGregoryIV has a reputation beyond reputeAllenGregoryIV has a reputation beyond reputeAllenGregoryIV has a reputation beyond reputeAllenGregoryIV has a reputation beyond reputeAllenGregoryIV has a reputation beyond reputeAllenGregoryIV has a reputation beyond reputeAllenGregoryIV has a reputation beyond reputeAllenGregoryIV has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to AllenGregoryIV
Re: <G40>

From <R11>
Quote:
For the purposes of determining compliance with the weight and volume limitations, the items listed below are NOT considered part of the ROBOT and are NOT included in the weight and volume assessment:
A. the 12V battery and its associated half of the Anderson cable quick connect/disconnect pair (including no more than 12” of cable per leg, the associated cable lugs, connecting bolts, and insulating electrical tape),
B. BUMPER assemblies (including BUMPER covers, if appropriate) that are in compliance with Rules <R07> and <R08>,
C. the OPERATOR CONSOLE, and
D. the MINIBOT.
If R11 is correct and the minibot is not included in determining the robot volume limitations does this mean it is also not included in the R14?

Quote:
<R14> When a ROBOT is in its STARTING CONFIGURATION, no part of the ROBOT shall extend outside the vertical projection of the FRAME PERIMETER.
This does not seem to make since as you would not be able to push a robot against a wall and not hit the minibot if it was outside the bumper perimeter. This is definitely something that needs clarification.
  #7   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 10-01-2011, 13:57
Owen Meaker Owen Meaker is offline
Registered User
FRC #4180
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Rookie Year: 2010
Location: Kent, Washington
Posts: 17
Owen Meaker is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: <G40>

As I see it, the ROBOT is MINIBOT+HOSTBOT. Upon deploying, the MINIBOT is now seperate from the HOSTBOT, and so is not bounded by ROBOT and HOSTBOT restrictions, as the ROBOT no longer exists, just a MINIBOT and a HOSTBOT.
  #8   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 10-01-2011, 13:58
Chris is me's Avatar
Chris is me Chris is me is offline
no bag, vex only, final destination
AKA: Pinecone
FRC #0228 (GUS Robotics); FRC #2170 (Titanium Tomahawks)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Glastonbury, CT
Posts: 7,786
Chris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Chris is me
Re: <G40>

Quote:
Originally Posted by Owen Meaker View Post
As I see it, the ROBOT is MINIBOT+HOSTBOT. Upon deploying, the MINIBOT is now seperate from the HOSTBOT, and so is not bounded by ROBOT and HOSTBOT restrictions, as the ROBOT no longer exists, just a MINIBOT and a HOSTBOT.
If that is the case there is no extension limit for a robot that does not have a Minibot.
__________________
Mentor / Drive Coach: 228 (2016-?)
--2016 Waterbury SFs (with 3314, 3719), RIDE #2 Seed / Winners (with 1058, 6153), Carver QFs (with 503, 359, 4607)
Mentor / Consultant Person: 2170 (2017-?)
.
College Mentor: 2791 (2010-2015)
-- 2015 TVR Motorola Quality, FLR GM Industrial Design -- 2014 FLR Motorola Quality / SFs (with 341, 4930)
-- 2013 BAE Motorola Quality, WPI Regional #1 Seed / Delphi Excellence in Engineering / Finalists (with 20, 3182)
-- 2012 BAE Imagery / Finalists (with 1519, 885), CT Xerox Creativity / SFs (with 2168, 118)
Student: 1714 (2009) - 2009 MN 10K Lakes Regional Winners (with 2826, 2470)
2791 Build Season Photo Gallery - Look here for mechanism photos My Robotics Blog (Updated April 11 2014)
  #9   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 10-01-2011, 14:16
Jon Stratis's Avatar
Jon Stratis Jon Stratis is offline
Mentor, LRI, MN RPC
FRC #2177 (The Robettes)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 3,835
Jon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond repute
Re: <G40>

AllenGregoryIV - In the past, that portion of <R11> has been there for the purposes of inspection - it makes sense to have teams remove their bumpers and batteries prior to weighing and sizing the robot. And this year, that includes the minibot.

Now, how does this apply to the starting configuration? Well, lets think about the battery. Is it legal to design a robot so the battery sticks out over the bumpers? If you tried that, I think just about any ref, inspector, or judge would have a fit. I would use this same common sense as it applies to the minibot - in the starting configuration, the only thing that should be outside your frame perimeter is the bumpers (and associated mounting hardware as may be allowed per <R07>). The Minibot should start out completely within your frame perimeter.

I think the original question in the thread is valid, and not entirely clear in the rules. Logically, you would expect the host bot and minibot to be considered separate entities after deployment, allowing you to move away from the tower, but the rules don't make that clarification. Rather, the rules only specify that the ROBOT is both of them combined, and they have to stay within the 60"(213.4cm) diameter vertical right cylindrical volume.
  #10   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 10-01-2011, 14:41
AllenGregoryIV's Avatar
AllenGregoryIV AllenGregoryIV is offline
Engineering Coach
AKA: Allen "JAG" Gregory
FRC #3847 (Spectrum)
Team Role: Coach
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Rookie Year: 2003
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,569
AllenGregoryIV has a reputation beyond reputeAllenGregoryIV has a reputation beyond reputeAllenGregoryIV has a reputation beyond reputeAllenGregoryIV has a reputation beyond reputeAllenGregoryIV has a reputation beyond reputeAllenGregoryIV has a reputation beyond reputeAllenGregoryIV has a reputation beyond reputeAllenGregoryIV has a reputation beyond reputeAllenGregoryIV has a reputation beyond reputeAllenGregoryIV has a reputation beyond reputeAllenGregoryIV has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to AllenGregoryIV
Re: <G40>

Thank you and I do understand that and have interrupted this rule in the past that way as well. And in all likely hood that is the spirit of the rule this year.

I think the confusion is generated in that if the MINIBOT is not included in "ROBOT" in this rule why did they not use the term HOSTBOT. I just think it could have been worded better and would like an update to ensure that this is the way the rule will be enforced. <R14> would restrict starting the MINIBOT outside of the bumpers but that still leaves potential for the MINIBOT to start above the 60" height restriction. A simple rule stating that the MINIBOT must be contained in the STARTING DIMENSIONS at the start of the match would suffice to remove the ambiguity.

I also think the MINIBOT's starting position inside the robot should be part of the inspection to ensure that it complies with these rules.

Especially when we are going to have teams swapping out MINIBOTs this could be very confusing. If a team's MINIBOT is slightly longer then another's and they swap will that team be allowed to play if the MINIBOT extends past the bumper perimeter slightly?
Closed Thread


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:16.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi