Mini Bot - displeasure

[Tom Line]

Originally Posted by Navid Shafa

With the limited resources allowed, I'd be surprised to see a minibot that was able to do significant damage, even with the old rule set. The plates are designed to take at least 4-5 Newtons I'd bet even more. Knowing FIRST, these things will be made durable anyways, considering how much wear and tear it will receive at a regional event. I think it's A, a safety issue and B, a uniformity and regulation issue.

Actually, we were concerned we'd blow the top off the scoring pole. Using surgical tubing as an energy storage device in your minibot, you could easily put several hundred pounds of force into spinning your wheels to climb the pole with some very simply engineering. Hint - that's exactly how many teams kicked the soccer balls and launched the track balls. Now picture the same with something weighing under a pound total.

Limiting us to only the electrical energy available in the 12V battery is a smart move on FIRST's part. Limiting us to FTC components only is disappointing. However, it is what it is - we'll move on like everyone else and do our best to figure out a way to make a minibot with no FTC teams to give us parts.

[Justin Stiltner]

Tom,
Read the rules about what you can construct your robot with. You only are required to use the tetrix battery and motors. The rest of the mechanical can be built from standard FRC parts, Aluminum, polycarb, etc!!!

The point bill is trying to make is that as I mentioned, the NXT brick is not required. Currently there are no rules specifically for the mini bot electrical system. As such one could use the two household electrical switches to power your motors. This will allow your robot to be lighter and avoid needing to buy a NXT controller brick and the tetrix motor controller.

[1086VEX]

Even though 1086 participates in the FTC competition, i was hoping that they wouldn't limit us to just tetrix. For one, it may stop our FTC team from competing in further regional competitions this season which will be sad to see. As many also said its unfair for teams that compete in the VRC. Granted they did give us the option to use other material other than just tetrix i would've much preferred to see the possibility of some VEX or other system based minibots.

As far as the limiting of creativity goes i don't buy it. the whole Tetrix system is about being creative and with the additional materials, there are still many possibilities.

[billbo911]

Originally Posted by Justin Stiltner

Tom,
Read the rules about what you can construct your robot with. You only are required to use the tetrix battery and motors. The rest of the mechanical can be built from standard FRC parts, Aluminum, polycarb, etc!!!

The point bill is trying to make is that as I mentioned, the NXT brick is not required. Currently there are no rules specifically for the mini bot electrical system. As such one could use the two household electrical switches to power your motors. This will allow your robot to be lighter and avoid needing to buy a NXT controller brick and the tetrix motor controller.

Oh Justin, you let the cat out.

And, unless FIRST changes the rules, there will be exactly 0 NXT controllers in our Minibot. 0<1.

[JB987]

Originally Posted by billbo911

Oh Justin, you let the cat out.

And, unless FIRST changes the rules, there will be exactly 0 NXT controllers in our Minibot. 0<1.

We are hoping to get by with motors, battery and light switches only as our electrical system but what about " associated,appropriate circuitry)." Will the inspectors apply the FTC standards that do require use of motor controllers and NXT? Bottom line...what constitutes [b]appropriate circuitry[b]?

[Jack Jones]

Originally Posted by Justin Stiltner

Tom,
Read the rules about what you can construct your robot with. You only are required to use the tetrix battery and motors. The rest of the mechanical can be built from standard FRC parts, Aluminum, polycarb, etc!!!

The point bill is trying to make is that as I mentioned, the NXT brick is not required. Currently there are no rules specifically for the mini bot electrical system. As such one could use the two household electrical switches to power your motors. This will allow your robot to be lighter and avoid needing to buy a NXT controller brick and the tetrix motor controller.

Justin,

Re-read the rules about MINIBOT construction. The only "required" item is the battery.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Jack Jones

Justin,

Re-read the rules about MINIBOT construction. The only "required" item is the battery.

Jack, that is true. However, if you want your minibot to move vertically, then you need to read Update #1, specifically the blue box that now accompanies <G19>. NXT motors are now required equipment for vertical motion.

[Andy A.]

Originally Posted by EricH

Jack, that is true. However, if you want your minibot to move vertically, then you need to read Update #1, specifically the blue box that now accompanies <G19>. NXT motors are now required equipment for vertical motion.

I am extraordinarily confused. Unless I'm mistaken, those motors are available for free from the FIRST Choice program, as is the required battery pack. Those two items would constitute the only FTC parts you need to run a minibot, correct?

You could wire the two with a simple switch in between and not include any of the (heavy and yucky) FTC bricks/motor controllers/whatever other horrid things they use, right?

I haven't seen any rules about FTC wiring- sorry, I'm just not involved in FTC and have zero desire to be. Are mini-bots playing in the FRC game being held to FTC or FRC wiring rules? I realize that would be illegal for a FRC bot to use a switch for motor control, but what about FTC? It doesn't seem immediately clear to me.

Really, I'm confused. Sorry if this has been hashed out, but can someone please explain for the rest of us what exactly changed in team update one besides what is already clearly stated in it? Why the sudden concern that we can only use FTC parts (besides concerns over everyone having the same lame performance)?

[Radical Pi]

Originally Posted by EricH

NXT motors are now required equipment for vertical motion.

Typo? NXT motors are illegal. The motors allowed are 2 Tetrix motors.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Radical Pi

Typo? NXT motors are illegal. The motors allowed are 2 Tetrix motors.

Typo.

Andy, you're correct.

The concern over FTC parts only (plus all the other stuff in <R92>) is that they removed all forms of stored energy except the battery pre-deployment. So there's no chance of a spring-powered flywheel that is also a drive wheel, say.

They turned a mousetrap car competition into an FTC competition.

The other thing is that it does seem to be political. Some of us hate political decisions like that, no matter the effect.

Also, FIRST Choice is a first-come-first serve, and some teams may have already placed their orders. It might be too late to go back and get an FTC kit through that. So now you have to go the hard and expensive way.

[Andy A.]

Originally Posted by EricH

They turned a mousetrap car competition into an FTC competition.

Ah, I see. It didn't occur to me to not get the FTC mini kit, although now I can see why some teams might not. I hadn't planned on using the motors, but I figured the mini-kit might have something useful down the road.

I never seriously believed that FIRST would allow projectile minibots, and I fairly doubt anyone else did, but I am terribly disappointed by the lack of springs or other stored energy. My intention had been to pursue a flywheel design, something I think could have been done safely and would have been very fun to watch. And flywheels sound wicked cool.

I can agree with a lot of the displeasure being voiced (now that I'm not so confused!). I was psyched when I saw the mini bots at kickoff. The shine has definitely worn off now. It went from being a really cool challenge within the game to playing FTC. I guess I play in FRC because I like the access to more powerful options and more technology. Limiting me to FTC's bag of tricks makes me wonder why I'm not just playing in FTC (or, better yet, in one of the VEX based games). As it is, it seems like the winning mini-bot design is the one that bears as little resemblance to FTC as possible, which can't be what FIRST was striving for here.

Thank you for the clarification, though. It seemed for a moment that the team update might have had more insidious implications then I thought. I really can't keep all this FTC, Vex, Tetrix, NXT etc. stuff straight. It all looks like erector sets to me!

[Justin Stiltner]

Jack,
While that is true, your robot would not be able to move, as there is no other legal method of converting the energy stored in the battery to work that results in the mini bot going up the pole. Update 1 disallowed stored energy within any other part of the mini bot being used to propel the mini bot up the pole.

Although, It could be a good move for teams without a minibot, or minibot deployment capability to carry the battery of a teammate for the coopertition points.

In any case, you are right, the only part required to be on the mini bot is the battery. But then again the rules don't require the robots to be mobile either