Breaking a logo combination

[FA816]

Are we allowed to launch logo pieces at enemy alliance posts to break their logo formation? or would that be "de-scoring"?

Edit: What i mean by launching at enemy alliance posts is actually scoring on them, but breaking a logo formation they previously had.

[ThirteenOfTwo]

I don't think there is a rule explicitly preventing this behavior. However, keep in mind that you are making these shots from five feet away with three different-shaped game pieces of variable size, and the opposing alliance is likely going to be ramming you to screw up your aim. Not to mention that that's a logo piece you could have scored for yourself.

I wish any team who wishes to attempt it luck in their pursuit of this achievement, but I personally don't think it's very mechanically or strategically feasible.

[FA816]

I was just a bit curious, I'm pretty sure our team has no intention of doing this, not the best of strategies.

[gbrettmiller]

I would say that <G39>, no descoring of an opponent's game piece, would cause you to get a red card.

Although you could also make the case that you weren't descoring a GAME PIECE, you were preventing them from getting a bonus.

[pfreivald]

Technically legal, tactically dubious.

[synth3tk]

Wouldn't win you any friends, that's for sure.

[GaryVoshol]

How are you going to manage it without going into their ZONE? See <G32>.

[Zuelu562]

Originally Posted by GaryVoshol

How are you going to manage it without going into their ZONE? See <G32>.

If you can get a launcher that's strong enough, it's possible, but very very VERY hard to accomplish. It's on the level of "Dumb luck" on a scale of luck. Plus, remember, you're giving them potentially 6 points (on the top row on top of an ubertube). If you do, make sure your drive team is aware of this and make those decision tactically, not "Oh they're about to get a logo! SHOOT THAT SQUARE!!!"

[Dancin103]

Originally Posted by GaryVoshol

How are you going to manage it without going into their ZONE? See <G32>.

I agree with the above statement, but does it prevent you from breaking a vertical plane? I understand that your little robot toes can't cross that line, but what says that you can not break the vertical plane by using a long arm to add tubes to your opponents peg board, and by launching tubes at their peg board and adding tubes to their board, I don't believe you would be de-scoring.

Just my two cents.

[SteveGPage]

Originally Posted by Dancin103

I agree with the above statement, but does it prevent you from breaking a vertical plane? I understand that your little robot toes can't cross that line, but what says that you can not break the vertical plane by using a long arm to add tubes to your opponents peg board, and by launching tubes at their peg board and adding tubes to their board, I don't believe you would be de-scoring.

Just my two cents.

<G32> says you can't break the plane of the vertically projected border. So no robot toes, nor robot fingers!

[Kims Robot]

I posted a similar question to the Q&A yesterday:

Assuming it was possible, without violating G32 (or other rules), can an alliance put a tube on an opponents Rack?

(no answer yet)

G39 only applies if there is another tube on the rack. Whether you are preventing them from getting a logo or trying to increase your rank score, it isn't clearly stated in the rules. Agreed that it is very technically challenging, but crazier things have been done *ahem 469*.

[billbcc91]

Seems like this move would make tactical sense, even if you did cross into the opposing ZONE. The penalty is only 1 point, whereas your opposition could score much more than that by doubling their row score. Then the question is different -- is the "hidden" logo still a logo that creates the row score doubler? If the answer to that is yes, then there is no value to this move at all.

Though if you are that good at placing tubes, it seems like you would be further ahead by completing your own logo.

[Borntolose]

Well, there is no precise definition for "de-scoring" in the manual, but in 2007 it was defined as removing the tubes from the rack. Hard to say if they have kept that definition this year.

Originally Posted by billbcc91

The penalty is only 1 point, whereas your opposition could score much more than that by doubling their row score. Then the question is different -- is the "hidden" logo still a logo that creates the row score doubler?

A penalty is three points, not one. Also, according to <G63>, the outermost Game Piece is counted for scoring, so they wouldn't get a Logo Bonus for a hidden Logo.

[billbcc91]

Thanks for clarifying. And thanks for the note on the penalty -- I never did read the definitions section closely until now. So this would be a very limited strategy unless you could, as the original poster suggested, accomplish the difficult task of placing a tube w/o violating the zone.

Violating the zone would then only make sense if you're fairly certain you can break up a very high scoring logo. As noted previously, there doesn't appear to be a specific rule penalizing you for removal of another team's tube from its rack. Or placement of something else over it.

Depending on future GDC rulings, this would become a sportsmanship issue. On that I would suspect you will get quite a diverse opinion.

[vigkvagkv2]

I personaly would not go for it, for multiple reasons:

1. For starters, that doesn't seem very gracious professional. It seems like just a loophole to not be nice to other teams.

2. You're giving them points that they might not recieve at all.

3. Say your robot could do such a feat. If your robot was that good, it would be much better served just trying to score for your own team.