Fetcher/Strategy

[Molten]

Originally Posted by Chris Hibner

With two robots that can score at 67/1114 speed (which will happen at the championships), I would say a good feeder would be highly desirable at championships.

My personal thought is that if you can build a robot that can throw a tube from your human player area to the offensive zone reliably (i.e. you are impervious to defense), you will never miss elims.

That is going too be the fatal flaw to what others are suggesting. If there are 2 scoring bots waiting for tubes and 1 fetcher bot going back and forth with tubes(even just part of the field or that shoots from a semi-low part of the robot) my job as a defense bot becomes easy. I just need to focus on the fetcher bot and the 2 scoring bots become useless and forcing them to get their own tubes. Meanwhile, my team that would ideally consist of 2 scorers(2 scorers, 1 defense being my ideal team) would be free to score without much resistance since the field is now mostly open for them to drive freely. The fetcher robot would be a great strategy if it can be implemented properly. I'd suggest for a fetcher bot to have mecanum wheels. It does lower your pushing power a bit, but if you get into pushing matches you failed as a fetcher anyways. The only way a fetcher could be useful is they can effectively avoid any other robot without getting into a pushing match. Put your focus on speed and mobility. However, this will hurt your chances of being able to switch to a defense bot when needed. If you do as I suggested, it is(in my opinion) the only reasonable way of making a fetcher bot...but you would REALLY be putting all your eggs in one basket.

Note to all: If you build offensively, keep defense in mind always for defense will always keep you in mind.

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by Molten

my job as a defense bot becomes easy. I just need to focus on the fetcher bot and the 2 scoring bots become useless and forcing them to get their own tubes.

Because there will be a ton of scoring bots that are completely inept at getting their own tubes...

If you're playing defense on the worst robot on the alliance, the alliance has already won. It's lose - lose: Either play a disadvantageous 2v2 matchup, or let two very good robots score even faster than you.

[Vikesrock]

I agree with Chris that this can be a viable strategy, but I think that the ceiling for this robot's effectiveness is even higher than his post seems to suggest. In that scenario the ceiling is equal to a purely defensive robot without the tube throwing capability, meaning there is no added value.

If the tube throwing robot is also capable of playing defense, they may be able to either effectively nullify a defender while simultaneously at least harassing the opponents offense or force the defender to let them throw tubes unhindered. If the defender hangs around while you switch to defense they are reducing their effectiveness, if they leave you go back to throwing tubes.

The distance the defender needs to travel to switch roles is much greater than the distance the tube thrower needs to travel.

[Molten]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

Because there will be a ton of scoring bots that are completely inept at getting their own tubes...

If you're playing defense on the worst robot on the alliance, the alliance has already won. It's lose - lose: Either play a disadvantageous 2v2 matchup, or let two very good robots score even faster than you.

I think we're just envisioning the setup differently. The ideal setup for this strategy would be 2 robots scoring while 1 zooms up and down the field providing tubes. Defense comes in and stops the speed bot. The 2 robots must then leave the scoring area and head down field in order to get their own tubes, when they get to the other side of the field, you have 3 robots all in close proximity. Its a defensive dream. You can keep all 3 in that area for 20 seconds leaving your alliance free to score. I know this is an exaggerated scenario. I just want to make one thing clear. If your going to be a fetch bot, be ready for this sort of thing happening. Figure out what is the best move if your opponent does use defense. There are ways to nullify defense if you know what your doing and to take them away from the better scorers. However, there are few that can do it if the defense driver knows what they are doing. From a defensive perspective, I want all the robots on the opposing alliance doing the same thing at the same time or to all be in the same area. I could see potential for said bot, but you better be a master strategist if your planning on consistently winning with the fetch bot. 3 offensive robots make strategy simple, 3 defensive robots make the strategy simple, 2 defense/1 offense or 2 offense/1 defense make strategy simple. Having a robot that is primarily for fetching makes things complicated. I'm not saying it can't be successful. I think it can be, its just going to be a hard card to play well all the time.

[Chris is me]

That's definitely a good point. A "pure" fetchbot with zero ability to score would need to worry, though I do think the problems are exaggerated. As breakaway showed, once you get to a 2 offense versus one defense scenario, one robot quickly wins.

The best thing to do would be to design a robot that can score well, and if it turns out you suck at that, become a great feeder.

Why do I feel like this is totally what's going to happen to Shaker?

[XaulZan11]

Originally Posted by Molten

I think we're just envisioning the setup differently. The ideal setup for this strategy would be 2 robots scoring while 1 zooms up and down the field providing tubes. Defense comes in and stops the speed bot. The 2 robots must then leave the scoring area and head down field in order to get their own tubes, when they get to the other side of the field, you have 3 robots all in close proximity...

I don't think you will ever see 2 robots sit in the scoring zone while 1 robot gets them tubes. That must be one VERY fast robot!

Instead, I think you will see all 3 robots get tubes with only 2 of them placing. As a defender, who are you going to stop? Probably their best placer, while letter the fetcher go free because it cannot score.

[Molten]

Originally Posted by XaulZan11

I don't think you will ever see 2 robots sit in the scoring zone while 1 robot gets them tubes. That must be one VERY fast robot!

Instead, I think you will see all 3 robots get tubes with only 2 of them placing. As a defender, who are you going to stop? Probably their best placer, while letter the fetcher go free because it cannot score.

Why not both? With 6 robots on the field, maneuvering can often become a challenge. Its completely possible for 1 robot to stall(not completely stop) 2 robots to cut their opponents score in half. I've seen one robot take on 3 and held them in a corner for a full 30 seconds without ever pinning one of them. Its actually easier with more robots if you can just get them in a semi-enclosed environment(ie the corner).

[XaulZan11]

Originally Posted by Molten

Why not both? With 6 robots on the field, maneuvering can often become a challenge. Its completely possible for 1 robot to stall(not completely stop) 2 robots to cut their opponents score in half. I've seen one robot take on 3 and held them in a corner for a full 30 seconds without ever pinning one of them. Its actually easier with more robots if you can just get them in a semi-enclosed environment(ie the corner).

I'm not exactly sure what you are getting at.

I agree that an alliance can get it its own way and thus easier to defend, but I don't think that is unique just for alliances with a feeder/fetcher. All tube placing alliances will need to spread out and not get in each others way.

[Molten]

Originally Posted by XaulZan11

I'm not exactly sure what you are getting at.

I agree that an alliance can get it its own way and thus easier to defend, but I don't think that is unique just for alliances with a feeder/fetcher. All tube placing alliances will need to spread out and not get in each others way.

My only real point was that in defense you don't have to choose one person. You said that the defense has a choice between either the fetcher or the main scorer...the truth is you can get both. You are completely right that this is true for all alliances. I just don't want teams to think the strategy this year is going to be as simple as it has been in the past.

[XaulZan11]

Originally Posted by Molten

My only real point was that in defense you don't have to choose one person. You said that the defense has a choice between either the fetcher or the main scorer...the truth is you can get both. You are completely right that this is true for all alliances. I just don't want teams to think the strategy this year is going to be as simple as it has been in the past.

Ok, I see what your saying and I agree. With more than one offensive threats, I forsee defenders playing a zone defense, or staying in the same region of the field and playing defense on whoever is in that region. Of course, if your playing 1114 and box bots 3xxxx and 3xxxx, then I would stick on 1114.