Coaches/Mentors on the Drive Team

[AZNkommander]

To me, as a student, it doesn't really matter how old the RoboCoach is. My only concern is that they don't get ape-crazy when the game starts.

[Andy Grady]

While having an adult in the analyst position is clearly illegal, having an adult mentor in the coaching position is not only legal, but I also recommend it.

Having been in both roles before, I can tell you that there is a ton of stress on a student in the driver/operator position. As a driver, you have the weight of the world on your shoulders. Every move you make is set up to be criticized by your peers. As a student, I always looked to my coach (or coaches as they allowed two back when I was in high school) to be the voice of reason. I dont know that I could have looked to a fellow student in the same way if he/she was a coach.

A good coach knows how to let cooler heads prevail at the proper moments. A good coach will protect his/her students from the stresses of angry team members. A good coach will protect his/her students from the stresses of other angry drive coaches. Fact is, I have seen coaching styles from other teams that I would choose not to subject a student coach to, because maturity in a situation like that might cause an issue.

I also feel that sometimes the mentors should be allowed to have their fun. While this competition is for the students, sometimes you do have to throw the mentors a bone. To some mentors, coaching is an excellent reward for a great effort they put in over the season. After all...most mentors are just big kids too.

[Alan Anderson]

Originally Posted by AZNkommander

To me, as a student, it doesn't really matter how old the RoboCoach is.

There was a RoboCoach position only in 2008 (FIRST Overdrive), and like every human player position it had to be filled by a pre-college student.

[Nemo]

I thought about this issue a lot when the previous version of this thread was busy: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=91144

This year I switched from student drive coaches to a mentor drive coach (me). I didn't realize how hard this job was until I tried it for an entire competition. My plan for future years is to give this job to a student in years when there is somebody that is committed enough and capable enough to do a good job of it.

For a student to do a great job as a drive team coach, it seems like a bunch of things need to come together. The student should be very assertive, quick thinking, very knowledgeable about the current game, have some knowledge of general wisdom from past games, be very good at communicating with the other teams, have the respect of the drivers, good at communicating with scouts on our team, able to concentrate on the rest of the field instead of being distracted by our robot. The list goes on... able to choose wisely which information to yell out, able to know when they should try to influence the alliance partners in a tactful way, able to keep their cool when other people are over-excited or frustrated, good at remembering to offer encouragement to teammates and other competitors, able to recognize new strategic options when novel situations emerge....

Basically, I think that the drive coach has a really tough job. Expecting a student to do all of that is a lot to ask. I hope to find the right student for the job some years, because they are out there.

I also think the coach has a significant impact on the competitive success of the team. And that is relevant, despite the fact that the competition isn't the main point of FIRST. Success in the competitions makes it easier to motivate the students. It's also a lot easier to take a defeat when we think we did the best we possibly could. And it doesn't feel that way if we were in the stands asking ourselves, "Why are they wasting time over on that side of the field? Why don't they go to the other side and do xyz?"

It does bother me to take up one of the precious positions on the field instead of letting an additional student go out there. It is a really intense experience that I wish I could give to all of the team members. For that matter, I have previously rotated drivers / human players / coaches to get more students out there. But that does make us less competitive, so it is a tricky choice. I know that if we manage to bring home a regional trophy (something that hasn't happened since I became the coach), it would be really exciting for the whole team, not just the drive team. There is a balance between the value of being competitive, which is shared by the entired team, and the value of putting one additional student on the field, which is a significant benefit for one person.

I don't have an opinion on the right way to do this. I'm just sharing a few thoughts since this is an issue I have been considering carefully.

[Siri]

Originally Posted by Avernelle8

1. It imparts to the students that they don't have the ability to be analysts.
2. It deprives some student of a position on the drive team.
3. If, in fact, coaches/mentors have better judgement than students, it gives an unfair advantage to a team that has an adult on the drive team when other teams don't.
4. It just seems contrary to the FIRST principal that this is a competition of students, by students and for students.

I've got an honest question related to point 4 that's been plaguing me for a while now. In regard to just putting students on the drive team*, how inspired do students get by rotating through and/or taking a position they're really not ready for? I'm honestly curious, as I spent 3 years as a driver but the impact was definitively long-term. It was also heavily based on adult coaching (see Paul and Andy's posts), but anyway.

How do you spot students that need 'just being on the field' or 'just rotating through' inspiration? (This seems like a skill I should develop if they exist) What does it actually do for them afterward? Any cool stories?

*I am certainly not saying that's the sole point of student coaches--I served as one (and continue as a mentor)--but if the point is simply "depriving some student of a position", I'd like to address the trade-off between getting more students on the field and impacting a long-term drive team.


Comment on point #1: Honestly, if I had a student who was capable of being a good coach but team philosophy prevented us from using them, they'd by definition be mature enough to understand why. Primary reason being because the actual coach's name is Raul, Brian, Derek, Paul, Andy, John...

[SenorZ]

Originally Posted by AZNkommander

To me, as a student, it doesn't really matter how old the RoboCoach is. My only concern is that they don't get ape-crazy when the game starts.

As a rookie team mentor (teacher) it was hard not to go ape-crazy when the driver kept getting close to the other alliance's scoring zone.

As a general observation, in the LA regional I saw many teams (some powerhouse) with an adult coach in the driver area. Sometimes hanging over the kids' shoulders even. I know my kids felt a little less stressed knowing I was there to give them direction when they got mixed up, and remind them of the strategy they worked on with the alliance.