A plead to FIRST, anyone else agree?

[Andrew Schreiber]

Originally Posted by RoboTigers1796

I say, we all come together and boycott until they promise a new never before seen exciting game that makes the playing field even for all teams veterans and rookies..

If you think that is a good solution then perhaps you should do that...

[George A.]

I really enjoyed reading the OP's message, and agree with a lot of their posts. But I always took a step back and thought of WHY I liked their post so much, and here's what I came up with.


Granted take this with a grain of salt so I don't sound like a crochety old man.

As far as the message repetition goes, I do agree that it does get a little grating after several iterations. I remember when I was a rookie (back in '01) the message was clear "let's spread the word of FIRST so we can grow to every school in America"...11 years later the message is still pretty much the same thing. It isn't changing at all, and I think that's what it's growing tired of. The message that they are giving us is to go out and show the world that we're not a bunch of shut-ins with little robots, that we have become mainstream. In my opinion, the best way to accomplish this is SHOW people not TELL them.

The best way to demonstrate this, is to appeal to the common spectator that wouldn't otherwise know of us. For instance, when a comic book movie comes out, the movie studios aren't making it FOR the die hard fans of the comic (because they know that the die hards will see it regardless), they're making it for Joe Schmoe that wouldn't normally go see something like that. We have to do the same thing. Yes the games are interesting for us to watch because we know the blood sweat and tears that went into designing our robot. But unless we start pumping out materials that makes the average person go "holy @#!> that's awesome" it's not going to do us any good. '08, '06' and '04 are good examples, because the games were high action, high scoring and made people excited to watch it.

I also agree that it's become WAY too political for our own good, so much so that it often trumps the events themselves. Yes meeting politicians is a great honor, but not when it inconveniences thousands of people.

One particularly egregious example of this was the 2008 NYC regional. We all knew that the mayor of NYC was going to visit, but the only problem was that we didn't know WHEN he was coming. Well he didn't make it in time for opening ceremonies on the last day of competition, but he did make it in the afternoon. In order to accommodate him, we stopped qualifying matches with TWO matches to go, and we stopped for lunch. Then we came back, he talked for 5 minutes (and made a corny joke about how we should build a robot to help the Knicks) and then was wisked away to the back rooms. After that we played the last 2 matches, then immediately went into alliance selections, and then immediately into eliminations. The teams had NO time to prepare or strategize, and it was very very unfair and totally interrupted the flow of the competition.

Granted I might be making a bigger deal out of the mayor's disruption than need be, but it really irked me that we had to put an entire regional on hold and not let teams compete to the best of their ability because he decided to show up when he did.


Well I could rant a lot more but I think I've outstayed my welcome.

[synth3tk]

Something to keep in mind:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/nerd
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/nerd
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nerd

Just to get this straight, this thread is about the way FIRST makes its games each year, and what we'd like to change. If you'd like to debate if being called a "Nerd" is a bad thing, please start another thread.

Thank you.

[davidthefat]

I am proud to be a nerd. Just saying. I would define a nerd as an addict... Addicted to knowledge. Some things I do in life is just for the pure knowledge gained from it. Sure, writing in Assembly probably will not give an advantage to my team, but I am doing it for the knowledge gained from the experience.

I will be frank with you, I do not like how FRC is run, but I really can't do much about it. I do not like the standardization of every aspect of the game.

[EricDrost]

Originally Posted by SuperNerd256

And you're saying the term "Nerd" is to be taken offensively? To me and my team, "Nerd" happens to be a compliment! It is used to mean respect! One day, "Nerds" will be ruling this world! Why are you acting like it's a bad thing? It's like a a jock saying their not a jock! And for the record, we had a member on our team who was varsity captain of the football team, and he had the word "Nerd" specifically printed on his uniform. I don't see how you can think being a "Nerd" is bad. I can't speak for everybody, but I'm proud to be a "Nerd"!!!

The word "nerd" denotes: "an intelligent but single-minded person obsessed with a nonsocial hobby or pursuit".

Being single-minded and obsessed is not exactly healthy. Variety is the spice of life.

Acting like FIRST is, to use Akash's words, a cult of nerds is counterproductive to FIRST becoming accepted in mainstream culture.

[JaneYoung]

If we give this thread a chance, it could be a very thought-provoking thread and provide a lot of insight into what people are thinking as we move towards the end of a long season. I'd like to see a thoughtful discussion with some thoughtful posts contributed rather than watch the discussion devolve into blanket generalizations and accusations. Those are never interesting or fun.

Jane

[ratdude747]

Originally Posted by Seathan93

1. The "true" message of FIRST is great, but it does not need to be repeated 200000 times.
2. Go back to more competition, you're beginning to lack in the competitive part of coopertition.
3. Enough of the shameless advertising. FIRST is not about the robots, great, but it's not about the politics either, nor is it about FIRST, it's about the future and inspiring our generation, and the next one.
4. Robotics is nerdy. The sooner that is accepted, and embraced, the sooner FIRST can confidently attract others to the program. Nothing says "nerds, beware" like a sign saying "hehehe, it's not nerdy"
5. You were on a good track with the "spectator friendly" game breakaway, continue on that track.

1. agreed.

2. agreed. the coopertion i think is a shot to the foot. for gaining publicity. If you want FIRST to be come adopted as a sport, then there MUST be competion. thats what most people want to see. GP is great off the field, but on the field it should be a show of who has the best bot. you know you have a bad ranking system when boxes on wheels end up as a allaince captains

3. agreed.

4. i think you have it half right. robotics can be nerdy but is not always nerdy. we need to accept that we can be nerds but also accept that we not always nerds. FIRST needs to as well.

5. agreed. i think games should be:

1. easy to get the basic concept of
2. a good mix of offence AND defense
3. challenging
4. simple fielded and using easy to find game pieces (to ease up build season)
5. setup so there are no sudden death situation other than red cards (like heavy endgame bonuses)

[R.C.]

Originally Posted by SuperNerd256

And you're saying the term "Nerd" is to be taken offensively? To me and my team, "Nerd" happens to be a compliment! It is used to mean respect! One day, "Nerds" will be ruling this world! Why are you acting like it's a bad thing? It's like a a jock saying their not a jock! And for the record, we had a member on our team who was varsity captain of the football team, and he had the word "Nerd" specifically printed on his uniform. I don't see how you can think being a "Nerd" is bad. I can't speak for everybody, but I'm proud to be a "Nerd"!!!

Ok look,

I will have to totally agree with Akash. Nerd may be "Cool" for you and your group of kids. But Nerd gives off a negative connotation, your not gonna win over many people, especially not the people FIRST is currently aiming at. The General Public.

FIRST isn't nerdy, its one of the coolest things I've ever been apart of. If we (the FIRST community) are not ready to change our own perception, how will we change others?

Personally I like what Amir (frc1717) told people at various events, we have to sell this program as the "New Cool". Many of the kids on 1323 are athletes or cheerleaders, most will even ditch practice and come to robotics because its "Cool". My kids never like to be called nerds and will promote the program as cool.

I've met a wide range of people and not one of them coming to a FIRST event for the FIRST time described it as Nerdy. Instead they called it "The Best Kept Secret".

This isn't promoting "The New Cool", but I truly believe the book and FRC1717 are on the right path and we should hop on that bandwagon instead of complaining about FIRST.

-RC

[Seathan93]

Originally Posted by ratdude747

4. i think you have it half right. robotics can be nerdy but is not always nerdy. we need to accept that we can be nerds but also accept that we not always nerds. FIRST needs to as well.

I agree that FIRST isn't always nerds, and that it can be and it can also not be. What I was getting at was the approach to promoting robotics. Robotics, for the most part, no matter what we say, is seen as a nerdy activity. Whether it is or not, the continuous emphasizing of it not being nerdy, to me, seems to make it appear nerdier than it actually is. Instead of worrying about whether it's nerdy or not, accept when it is, accept when it's not, and move on. There are so many other aspects of engineering and robotics that can captivate students and children, that to focus on making it appear cool or "not nerdy" actually has the opposite effect. When we have an open lab near the end of build season, we don't worry about telling the middle schoolers it's not nerdy, join, we show them sparks flying from the dremel, metal being cut, and our robot, as is, moving around.

Originally Posted by Purple

The word "nerd" denotes: "an intelligent but single-minded person obsessed with a nonsocial hobby or pursuit".

Being single-minded and obsessed is not exactly healthy. Variety is the spice of life.

Then let's change the definition of "Nerd"! "Nerds" used to be frowned upon, but then one day they created the cell phone, the computer, and every useful machine currently known to man! If it weren't for the "Nerd", then we might as well be living in caves! There might as well be no medicine, cars, or technology at all!

[rcmolloy]

Originally Posted by Akash Rastogi

What the heck is up with so many kids and adults if FIRST being obsessed with the word nerd. Nerdlove is not something to be proud of, the fact that you're so proud of acting like FIRST is a little cult of nerds is so frustrating and annoying.

The best mentors I know in FRC are intelligent people, what the heck constitutes them as nerds? The majority of the students on Team 11 are varisty and junior varsity athletes. Our captains are also athletes. I can name a lot of teams who are the same way. The kids on 3553 are mostly from the football team as well.

What do you really even know about other teams and other people?

So really, this pisses me off (as you call tell by this post).

Have fun with treating FRC like a little cult of nerds.

Honestly, I always thought that the true meaning for nerd was an intellectual badass.

Originally Posted by R.C.

its one of the coolest things I've ever been apart of.
-RC

I completely agree with this statement! FRC IS cool! Can we please just leave it at that?

Originally Posted by rcmolloy

Honestly, I always thought that the true meaning for nerd was an intellectual badass.

rcmolloy, I love you now! New definition of "Nerd": Intellectual badass!!!!

[Alan Anderson]

Wow. I don't feel a need to debate it or to try to change anyone's mind, but I have to say I disagree with practically everything in the original post.