Bills Blog - Champs info

[JaneYoung]

Originally Posted by FRC4ME

I don't think that's how it should work. What is FIRST without its teams?

This year it is what it is and, at some point, we will all find out what that is, specifically.

Perhaps a poll would help determine how folks in CD feel about the fields arrangement in St. Louis regarding the high profile of the Dome and the easy access of the pits. I think we'd find the majority don't really mind but I might be surprised.

Jane

[EricH]

I wouldn't necessarily mind...

But, I don't know why, so I do kind of mind.

After I know why, I'll be more apt to make up my mind fully. If it's for a concert, yeah, I'll be a bit annoyed. If it's for the Collegiate Pilot, probably not so much. If it's for no reason at all, I'll be really annoyed.

This despite not being able to be at the event.

In other words, I only mind because I don't know the reason behind the move. Once that reason is known, I'll make up my mind whether I actually mind or not.

[FRC4ME]

Originally Posted by JaneYoung

This year it is what it is and, at some point, we will all find out what that is, specifically.

Perhaps a poll would help determine how folks in CD feel about the fields arrangement in St. Louis regarding the high profile of the Dome and the easy access of the pits. I think we'd find the majority don't really mind but I might be surprised.

Jane

Oh I'm not worried. It is what it is, I agree. Life will go on, and FIRST will go on, and we'll get used to the new arrangement.

Though there's nothing wrong with wanting to know the reasons behind the new arrangement or expressing genuine concerns, and we all would prefer that FIRST (the organization) stays on the right path.

Perhaps they just want to have a celebration for the 20th anniversary, and will go back to the old arrangement next year. Or perhaps we will end up liking it this way. I can think of several advantages: people in the pits get to see matches. The pits don't feel so isolated from the action. Teams get more time to observe and improve their robots for half of their matches. I've been to CMP twice, and I've always considered the regionals to be more fun in many ways. Having the game right around the curtain at all times might have been why. It does feel more intimate; spectators are closer to the field, and competing teams are often standing around the perimeter of the field, which makes eliminations much more exciting than those which take place in an open dome.

[MikeE]

Originally Posted by SammyKay

I don't see anything on here about whether we are allowed to use the practice field on Wednesday or not...does anybody have any thoughts about whether we are allowed to? I know 316 would like to try and get some time on the practice field as soon as possible on Wednesday...

On the last page of the A-Z Team Guide (04/08 edition)

Practice Field Schedule
Times are subject to modification. Listen for Pit Announcements/postings for any changes
Thursday: 8:30am to 5:30pm
Friday: 9:15am to 5:30pm
Saturday: 8:00am to 11am

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by EricH

I wouldn't necessarily mind...

But, I don't know why, so I do kind of mind.

After I know why, I'll be more apt to make up my mind fully. If it's for a concert, yeah, I'll be a bit annoyed. If it's for the Collegiate Pilot, probably not so much. If it's for no reason at all, I'll be really annoyed.

This despite not being able to be at the event.

In other words, I only mind because I don't know the reason behind the move. Once that reason is known, I'll make up my mind whether I actually mind or not.

One might ask "Why do you care"? You haven't been on a FIRST team in awhile. It doesn't really affect you.

I'm not meaning to be critical... I'm upset and I'm not attending the Championship either. I'm just curious.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

One might ask "Why do you care"? You haven't been on a FIRST team in awhile. It doesn't really affect you.

I'm not meaning to be critical... I'm upset and I'm not attending the Championship either. I'm just curious.

It's because of the principle of the thing.

Teams pay $5K--plus travel--to play in the main arena at the Championships. (OK, to play at Championships--but you've got to admit, playing on an NFL field, even if it's covered over, is pretty darn cool.) Now they're being told (and note that that's NOW, not 3-4 months ago) that "Oh, we're only putting 3 fields out for FRC this year, the other 2 are in the pit...but we'll make it up to you by making you switch fields halfway through!"

First, that's logistical mayhem. I don't think it could be done in Atlanta--the distances were too great. In St. Louis, they're smaller, but you'll still have a bit of a traffic jam (there are something like 3-4 ways into the dome from the conference area, but I've seen the traffic jam 15K+ college students can create in 2 of those ways at once, while some of them are still at dinner, and a third way at a different time--it's NOT fun to navigate, unless you can use a side route open to volunteers only).

But the lack of explanation is what really gets me. I've had a soccer game moved before--the normal field was rained out. But I knew about it ahead of time, the field change went smoothly, and we all knew the reason. But if that same game had just been moved at halftime, with no reason, even if the move was known ahead of time, I think people would be pretty annoyed.

That's why I'm skeptical. I've seen the speculation.

If the speculation about a musical performance is correct, and it takes half the venue for three days to do it properly, then I really won't like the change. (Note: This is only if the musical performance takes half the venue for the full time. Otherwise, I continue to wonder...)

If the speculation about the college pilot is correct, then I won't mind--they need the ceiling and the space to do it right. Plus, it can be a show-stopper/attractant of the public--better advertising.

If it's something like a big water tank in the other half of the venue... Don't get me started on that (L.A. 2008). But that's not a FIRST problem, that's a venue problem, and would probably not be a future issue. That's one that I could probably stomach--wouldn't like, but could take.

As for it not affecting me: Not this year, but if it's continued in future (say I mentor a team in future), and I do go to the Championships again, it will affect me then. The best way to control the future is to do things in the present. As such, if it's a reasonable reason, I can add a voice that says, "Sure, that's OK, let's do it again!" If it's not, then I can add a voice that says, "What Were You Thinking?"

If there were a reasonable explanation that FRC HQ could release, that would probably satisfy me. Even if it was, "We're planning some form of event in that half of the venue, but we can't tell you what it is." Or denying a rumor or something like that.

Or, as I tell teammates on my college competition team: "Well, at least we know for sure that that company isn't going to sponsor us!" (It's not fun to have a potential sponsor not respond for months on end.) I'll take knowing for sure (even knowing that I can't know) over speculation on why.

P.S. This is the first year since 1999 that I haven't been to at least one competition, either as a spectator, a team member, or a volunteer. My folks are still involved, too. That's 11 years of 1+ competitions/year, and only 6 of those years were with a team.

[NickE]

Originally Posted by EricH

If the speculation about the college pilot is correct, then I won't mind--they need the ceiling and the space to do it right.

Originally Posted by College FIRST Manual

The field will be enclosed in netting around the outside perimeter with a net ceiling height of approximately 16’.

The floor plan for the America's Center specifies a "Contiguous ceiling height of 40ft" within the exhibit halls. I see no reason why any 16ft tall college FIRST event would not fit in the exhibit halls.

[David Brinza]

Originally Posted by EricH

This is the first year since 1999 that I haven't been to at least one competition, either as a spectator, a team member, or a volunteer.

[sarcasm]Eric! What's wrong with you? Are you letting school get in the way of your education?[/sarcasm]

You, my friend, are a good example of why FIRST at the collegiate level might not be such a wonderful idea. There's no need to change your perceptions about seeking a career in science, technology, engineering or math. Just completing the course of study and projects to obtain a degree are more than enough challenge. Finding time and money to participate in a program outside the mainstream for graduation is probably not going to happen.

Maybe FIRST Collegiate program targets individuals who are "undecided" as freshmen or sophomores. If decide to pursue a technical degree, they probably won't be looking to do FIRST anymore (or at least until they graduate). Will professional engineering mentors jump into an environment with college students hell-bent on making their own ideas work? Doesn't seem like a good "risk-reward" trade to me. Maybe this is an orthogonal FIRST where mentors aren't needed or even wanted?

I don't even know how to think about the financial aspects of this program. Most college students are broke and their parents usually struggle with the costs as well. I don't think college students are going to do fund-raising or beat down doors of corporate leaders for support. Universities themselves are under tremendous financial pressures as well. Where is the market??

Ugh...

[DCA Fan]

Originally Posted by EricH

If it's something like a big water tank in the other half of the venue... Don't get me started on that (L.A. 2008). But that's not a FIRST problem, that's a venue problem, and would probably not be a future issue. That's one that I could probably stomach--wouldn't like, but could take.

What, you're telling me you didn't enjoy the fact that American Gladiators had taken up half the arena and part of the parking lot? *tongue in cheek*

[JohnBoucher]

Since it has been one week since the last update on Bills Blog, I suspect that details are still in flux.

FIRST, You have every right to change the big show, but please keep the community up on the details. We will understand.

[thefro526]

Originally Posted by NickE

The floor plan for the America's Center specifies a "Contiguous ceiling height of 40ft" within the exhibit halls. I see no reason why any college FIRST event would not fit in the exhibit halls.

Nick, I was thinking the same thing, and the only reason I could come up with is that FIRST wants to display the Collegiate Pilot in the most visible place possible for some reason.

But, I still think it should be in the pits, considering that it's a pilot and there are only 20 teams involved...

[rsisk]

I wonder about the idea of a musical act taking up half of the dome, especially when you consider the Black Eye Peas can put up a stage, do a show, and take down the stage during a 30 minute Super Bowl halftime.

[robobandmom]

I was at the Buckeye Regional and they announced on Saturday that Will.I.Am and/of the Blackeyed Peas will perform in St Louis. (It was kind of hard to hear, so I'm not sure if they said "of" or "and.")

This is a reply from Steele Meetings when asked about details for the Finale party. "There is no cost to attend the finale party this year. We are still waiting for the final details, however, the entertainment will be open to the FIRST community and there will be concession sales for the food & drink. There should be additional details announced soon."

[JohnBoucher]

Originally Posted by robobandmom

We are still waiting for the final details, however, the entertainment will be open to the FIRST community and there will be concession sales for the food & drink. There should be additional details announced soon."

No free food the wrap party this year?

From a chaperone/mentors point of view It would be nice know this so the students could plan for this.

[rees2001]

Originally Posted by JohnBoucher

No free food the wrap party this year?

From a chaperone/mentors point of view It would be nice know this so the students could plan for this.

Agreed, this just continues to show the lack of communication coming from FIRST right now. Some information would be better than no information. Give me the details you have so we can plan better.