pic: Bills Blog - Bleachers in pit

[rcmolloy]

Originally Posted by jspatz1

So the FRC Championship matches are relegated to some makeshift bleachers in the pits to make room for a pop music concert. The core message of FIRST is to teach young people to celebrate the right things, to change pop culture to focus on what is really important, to help society set the right priorities. I hate to say it out load, but the irony of this is so powerful that I cannot help but feel that FIRST has temporarily lost sight of its own message. I welcome and am grateful for the support of the Black Eyed Peas. It is fine to try to incorporate and leverage their support into the Championship event. But to literally displace the fields and matches and scramble the competition that is the very purpose of the event, that seems like a perfect example of being enamored by pop glitter and allowing it to come before what is really important...exactly what we are asking young people to resist doing.

Pretty much what I was saying in more in-depth analysis. Great post *gives rep point*

[BrendanB]

Originally Posted by Kims Robot

Be careful, this is all STILL speculation. Even though FIRST has now announced the Will.i.am concert, we still have NO confirmation as to why the decision was made to move the fields. Looking at the photos in Bills blog, for some reason, that Dome seems to look a lot smaller than the Georgia Dome. I know others have done the math, and probably have more details, but there are still plenty of reasons why they may have made this decision. Until we get there, or until they say otherwise, assuming they "pushed us aside for a rock concert" is STILL speculation. Obviously many others don't, but I still have faith that in general, FIRST knows what it is doing, and often has good reason for doing what they do.

Ahhh.... the entitlement generation...

No offense Kim and although I may seem like I am whining, speculation is over. And it is disheartening to be told one thing for years listening to Dean's speeches and now two fields are being moved for a concert.

Yes, they haven't said the fields have been moved for a reason beside the concert, but they still haven't offered another position as to why they were moved besides that they wanted a more "intimate" field experience and "trying something new". I see the dome floor and I was hoping that FLL and FTC would be expanded as they have been squished, but all I see is half of the floor taken up for a concert stage...... what are we celebrating? What are we sending as our message? What are the rookie teams who are competing in the pits for most of the weekend supposed to think? What is now the center of attention, the robots and students or a stage?

I understand that we may be "whining" however this is really disheartening to see.

Entitlement? Now that is dope.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Kims Robot

Be careful, this is all STILL speculation. Even though FIRST has now announced the Will.i.am concert, we still have NO confirmation as to why the decision was made to move the fields. Looking at the photos in Bills blog, for some reason, that Dome seems to look a lot smaller than the Georgia Dome. I know others have done the math, and probably have more details, but there are still plenty of reasons why they may have made this decision. Until we get there, or until they say otherwise, assuming they "pushed us aside for a rock concert" is STILL speculation. Obviously many others don't, but I still have faith that in general, FIRST knows what it is doing, and often has good reason for doing what they do.

Kim,

Normally I'd agree. However, in the layout maps, over 1/2 of the Dome floor space seems taken for what certainly appears to be a concert space. OVER 1/2! The picture in Bill's Blog looks like it's taken from the floor in an area I know fairly well, at about the 1/3 mark from A and D entrances (might be between 1/3 and 1/2). That's why it looks so small. It's taken from the D side, looking towards the A entrance. That grid in the air on the right side is for one of the fields. You're really only looking at a corner of the venue, not an end. The rest of the pictures are in the convention center's halls, or the passthrough between Hall 5 and the arena floor. Those won't tell you anything about the arena area.

There is MORE than enough room for 4 FRC fields, FTC, and FLL/Einstein, and most likely the Aerial Robotics group of teams as well, on the floor of the Dome.

This is really starting to look like L.A. 2008, except intentional. (For those that weren't there: The arena double-booked, so the American Gladiators water tank was in half the arena floor. Pits were cramped and so was the field. Normally, space wasn't an issue--that year, it was.) Hopefully the result will be about the same--L.A. 2009 had 10'x15' pits and plenty of open space (practice field and competition field and machine shop, too).

Edit: I wonder if the theater in the same complex is being used for anything that night...

[Mike Soukup]

Originally Posted by IKE

If you have some constructive criticism or ideas, now is a good time to try those exchanges.

Proper hygiene is a good start

Teams can't be possessive of "their" seats on the pit fields. If no one's sitting in a seat, it doesn't belong to any team. Team sections will need to expand and contract as team members come and go. Everyone needs to be willing to share.

Kim, from this diagram, it's pretty apparent that two fields were moved from the dome to the pit to make way for the giant stage on the right. If there was a problem fitting divisions + FTC + Einstein in the dome, they would (or at least should) have realized it before they signed the contract and notice would have gone out a lot sooner about the change.

[Andrew Schreiber]

Originally Posted by Kims Robot

Obviously many others don't, but I still have faith that in general, FIRST knows what it is doing, and often has good reason for doing what they do.

Ahhh.... the entitlement generation...

I never attribute to malice what I can equally attribute to poor decisions. I believe FIRST will do whatever it feels is right. I know FIRST is made up of humans who do make mistakes. I feel this is one of those mistakes. Stating that I am unhappy with how things are playing out does not make me entitled or negative or "un GP" (as someone will surely claim at some point). It makes me a concerned mentor. It makes me a customer who, having spent a good deal of money and time to get to this stage, wants to get a lot of bang for their buck. I want my students to realize that people like Andy Baker are rockstars and are at least as worthy of multimillion dollar contracts as Will.I.Am. I just don't see how the perception of being shoved aside for some pop concert isn't saying that it is more important than the engineers... Remember, perception is more important than intent.

[Vikesrock]

Originally Posted by Kims Robot

Be careful, this is all STILL speculation. Even though FIRST has now announced the Will.i.am concert, we still have NO confirmation as to why the decision was made to move the fields. Looking at the photos in Bills blog, for some reason, that Dome seems to look a lot smaller than the Georgia Dome. I know others have done the math, and probably have more details, but there are still plenty of reasons why they may have made this decision.

Others have already responded to this, but the floor of the Edward Jones Dome is either comparable to or significantly larger than the floor of the Georgia Dome depending on whether the retractable seats are out or retracted. I posted exact numbers in the Bill's Blog post that announced the fields in the pit (I think that's where it was).

[Chexposito]

wow i can't believe FIRST put the popular culture before their own message. i think we can all agree that FIRST got star struck and decided what it did. no offense to will.i.am or the other people performing, but i would rather half the arena be set off for a mythbusters experiment. that's more on topic than a singer. plus the mythbusters are better in the first place, and would probably have us still have our fields in the dome and take the pit area set aside for the fields instead because they would realize the intention of the event they were at.

[1986titans]

According to the FAQ for the concert, it looks like having fields in the pit area might become permanent:

#14. Does this mean there will be a special event at every Championship from now on?
We sure hope so! We hope that the success of this private performance at the 2011 FIRST
Championship sets the stage for similar events in the future.

[Kims Robot]

Originally Posted by Mike Soukup

Kim, from this diagram, it's pretty apparent that two fields were moved from the dome to the pit to make way for the giant stage on the right. If there was a problem fitting divisions + FTC + Einstein in the dome, they would (or at least should) have realized it before they signed the contract and notice would have gone out a lot sooner about the change.

Thanks. I apparently missed the map that had the Dome in it (only saw the one with the pits). Personally, I'm still looking forward to not having to walk all the way to the dome every day, but I guess I am one of those glass is half full people.

For those of you that are so outraged, I would highly suggest taking Ike's suggestion and crafting a well written letter/email to FIRST. Complaints here, while often read, do not have the power of direct and well written letters. If enough people are really upset, they will make the change (perhaps not until next year, but they will react).

But for all the mentors out there I would really encourage you to think about what your complaints (now) do for the kids. Are they really going to have a terrible time because one of the days they have to sit on some bleachers in the pits? Or can you help them have a positive attitude, realizing all the amazing robots they are going to get to see, the amazing people they can meet, the presentations, scholarships etc... Its all what we make of it, and the biggest thing that I have learned about being a mentor is that your kids will follow your lead a lot more than you might ever expect. If you have a negative attitude, so will they, and they will likely have a worse time. Do you want to be the reason they have a worse time and a bad attitude? or can you encourage them to go have a great time, and let them make that decision for themselves?

No more CD for me... I'm going to go have a good time this weekend See you all there!

[Ian Curtis]

Originally Posted by Andrew Schreiber

I want my students to realize that people like Andy Baker are rockstars and are at least as worthy of multimillion dollar contracts as Will.I.Am. I just don't see how the perception of being shoved aside for some pop concert isn't saying that it is more important than the engineers... Remember, perception is more important than intent.

Entertainers/Rockstars/Athletes might get multi-million dollar contracts... but only Engineers get multi-billion dollar contracts.

I wish someone could just ask Bill (or FIRST), "If will.i.am and his friends weren't performing, would all four FRC fields have been on the arena floor?" When you speculate it's really easy to make assumptions, and we all know what those do...

[jspatz1]

Originally Posted by Kims Robot

Be careful, this is all STILL speculation. Even though FIRST has now announced the Will.i.am concert, we still have NO confirmation as to why the decision was made to move the fields. Looking at the photos in Bills blog, for some reason, that Dome seems to look a lot smaller than the Georgia Dome.

It seems highly unlikely that FIRST would choose and contract for 3 years with a venue that cannot hold the event. The EJ Dome is a football field dome like the Georgia Dome is.

I'm sure when presented with the opportunity for this concert it was a very difficult offer to turn down, and as I said there is nothing wrong with incorporating Will.i.am's support into the event somehow. I understand the concept of attracting kids to FIRST, promotion, mainstreaming, etc. I'm just saying that defending STEM as our first cultural priority and not allowing the pull of pop culture to obscure our priorities is supposed to be the central idea of FIRST, and scrambling the FIRST Champs to make room for a concert sends the opposite symbolic message.

[Dargel1625]

As far as the actual seating issue goes, I think we'll manage. We manage to fit 72 teams into a high school gym every summer. Granted teams bring a few less people in average to IRI, but the point still stands. FIRSTers are great at making due with the space given.

[The Lucas]

Originally Posted by Ricksta

FIRST® Championship Friday night entertainment FIRST is delighted to announce a free, private performance for Registered FIRST Championship Teams in St. Louis by Grammy award-winning superstar, will.i.am with special guests on Friday evening April 29, 2011 at 8:30 PM at the Edward Jones Dome.

The FIRST Championship community is invited to take part in this extraordinary evening that we hope will be the basis of a potential future television special. Please wear your team colors! Please also be aware that being part of a television audience entails possible interruptions during the course of the show to make sure the best footage is captured.

Originally Posted by jspatz1

So the FRC Championship matches are relegated to some makeshift bleachers in the pits to make room for a pop music concert. The core message of FIRST is to teach young people to celebrate the right things, to change pop culture to focus on what is really important, to help society set the right priorities. I hate to say it out load, but the irony of this is so powerful that I cannot help but feel that FIRST has temporarily lost sight of its own message. I welcome and am grateful for the support of the Black Eyed Peas. It is fine to try to incorporate and leverage their support into the Championship event. But to literally displace the fields and matches and scramble the competition that is the very purpose of the event, that seems like a perfect example of being enamored by pop glitter and allowing it to come before what is really important...exactly what we are asking young people to resist doing.

(some emphasis mine)

Jeff,
I know you probably didn't see the details (the few that are shared right now) of the Friday night event before you posted but we shouldn't trivialize it as a pop music concert. FIRST seems to be trying to turn this (and probably other parts of the competition) into a television special. CD has pretty much universally applauded previous TV specials like Gearing Up (PBS), and MSC this year (local ABC).

With celebrity guests, like will.i.am and Morgan Freeman, this could have appeal to a much larger audience than previous efforts. Spreading the message of FIRST through celebrities & TV is in line with the core mission of FIRST from my perspective. FIRST's MO has always been "use the culture to change the culture", for example utilizing the sports model for a robot competition.

Lack of info about the Friday night event is probably the reason it has become such a big deal. I hope Bill will go into the process how these decisions are made in one of the FRC Live shows. I am on Curie, so I have similar concerns about scouting and room, particularly for Elim matches. It is not optimal, but it will work out alright in the end (I like a few others posted here have been to Epcot for 2 years and loved it bleachers and all). If this event turns into a national (or even international) TV Special, I feel the sacrifice of space is definitely worth it. Even if it doesn't make it to the national level, I believe it was worth the effort/experiment this year.

[DonRotolo]

Originally Posted by rcmolloy

I agree with Akash. This is something to complain about because teams want to have the experience of going to the main dome floor and competiting there. This is FIRST not a rock concert guys.

+0.04

sigh. While I'm not happy with what appears to be, I have decided (and advise all you as well) to actually experience it before complaining.

Don

[jspatz1]

As I have said twice, I understand the concept of maintstreaming FIRST, attracting kids, bringing media attention to the event, etc. I am glad for the support of Will.I.am. It is the execution and symbolic priority that concerns me. To me the approach should have been: this will be great and we will incorprate it somehow, but only if it does not interfere with the main prioirty, which is the FIRST competition. Displacing half of the competition from the main venue to make room for a concert screams the message that the concert is more important than the competition. When they put on a big show at the Superbowl, they do not make the teams play on half of a field to make room for it. They find a way to make it happen without interfering with the real purpose of the event.