Friday Night Entertainment - will.i.am with special guests

[Koko Ed]

Originally Posted by torihoelscher

but we still need to have fun dont we? Its not all about the competition, its about having fun too... (sorry if I offended anyone with that comment)

You shouldn't have to apologize at all for wanting to have fun. This is supposed to be fun.
You shouldn't gauge your level of enjoyment at the event based on your place in the standings.

[AlecMataloni]

Although I'm completely against having two divisions in the pits and the rest of this ordeal that these Championship plans have caused, It's inappropriate and unnecessary to call others out for not sharing your same opinion, or for being excited about whatever FIRST has planned.

Also, isn't this what FIRST is about? These plans have presented us with what some may call a problem. Last time I checked, FRC is centered around problem solving. Instead of complaining about a plan or a rule change, it's our job to find a way to overcome that challenge.

[dag0620]

I will say one thing.

From the minute Dean hinted that will.i.am was going to be preforming in St. Louis at kick-off, I had always assumed that it would be part of the wrap party. I just wonder if that was ever an option considered?

[torihoelscher]

Originally Posted by AlecMataloni

Although I'm completely against having two divisions in the pits and the rest of this ordeal that these Championship plans have caused, It's inappropriate and unnecessary to call others out for not sharing your same opinion, or for being excited about whatever FIRST has planned.

Also, isn't this what FIRST is about? These plans have presented us with what some may call a problem. Last time I checked, FRC is centered around problem solving. Instead of complaining about a plan or a rule change, it's our job to find a way to overcome that challenge.

You're completely right.

[Joe G.]

I've waited a while to post my thoughts on this topic, to allow things to calm down and give details more time to emerge.

Please, please, go into championships with an open mind. On the surface, I don't like the concept of displacing competition fields for a concert either. Then again, I've been doing FIRST for 10 years, and its message has sunk in with me enough that robotics is the only sport I follow closely.

In other words, I am not FIRST's audience anymore, and this is a good thing.

People come into this program all the time for things that, in our post-FIRST view, they maybe shouldn't. Free food at meetings. That cute guy who does it. The chance to miss school for trips. And so on. I've watched countless people do these things, only to see them grow and be inspired to do things they did not think they would the day they joined.

Adding another opportunity for this to happen can't hurt things.

I have not been terribly impressed with the planned execution, but the concert itself doesn't bother me, at all. And as far as execution, I shouldn't form opinions until after the fact.

I've been doing this for quite a while now. I've watched FIRST grow, and heard about its years before me. Over that time, I've disagreed with a number of decisions made by them, and more often than not, ended up eating my words. I've learned to withhold judgment until after the fact, which is what I urge everyone to do. I don't think that this is going to be just a concert, opposite in meaning to everything we do at championships. When in doubt, I trust FIRST's judgment. They've grown this program from 28 teams to over 2000, not to mention FLL and FTC. They've had time to plan this. From looking at what's been released, I don't think it will be fantastic.

But I don't think it will be the disaster a lot of people are predicting either.

FIRST has more experience than all of us at running these types of events. And they've stood for a constant mission for 20 years. I don't think that the concert is going to be an about-face on this. I look forward to seeing what FIRST has planned for us, and any publicity that results.

[Dave Flowerday]

http://www.forbes.com/2009/08/27/dea...nnovation.html

I've had to listen to speeches like this one from Dean for close to 2 decades. How do the plans in St. Louis jive with that? Have all of Dean's speeches been a joke? Does FIRST even believe in the things they say? What is FIRST celebrating in St. Louis? The accomplishments of 400 FRC teams, or a celebrity rock star? Take a look at some excerpts from the link above:

-----------

Celebrating Celebrity

It's not what our country doesn't have enough of, supply, it's what we have too much of compared to the rest of the world. Our kids are constantly barraged by nonsense. They are constantly barraged by every kind of bigger-than-life role model who comes from one of two places--the NBA or Hollywood. It's the only culture in the world where kids by the time they are 5 or 6 years old, they all know who Britney Spears is, and Paris Hilton is, and Shaquille O'Neal is.

And then after spending eight hours a day, five days a week in school learning, you say to any kid on the street here, "Can you tell me the name of a single, living, famous, scientist, engineer or inventor?" And they can't. Well in the free culture, you get what you celebrate. If we don't celebrate these things, why are you going to get kids to put their time, their energy and their passion towards those things? So whether they're inner-city kids with no resources or yuppie kids with more than is reasonable, they'll all bounce a ball four hours a day because it's their way out. They're all going to be the next NBA star because it's cool.

...

I think if the country could prove somehow that some foreign government was able to so radically undermine the perspectives and goals of the kids in this country as to create the generation that we've now got moving up, we would hunt them down and kill them for treason. Instead, we've got Hollywood and the NBA unwinding this country. We're doing it to ourselves. But the bottom line first I think is invention. Create an opportunity for kids to get together with serious adults in a meaningful way where there's content but it's still as much fun and as exciting as a football game or a rock concert. That's the invention. The innovation occurs if the invention finds its way into the culture and changes what we do.

[gren737]

Thank you Dave...my feelings exactly.

Originally Posted by Dave Flowerday

http://www.forbes.com/2009/08/27/dea...nnovation.html

I've had to listen to speeches like this one from Dean for close to 2 decades. How do the plans in St. Louis jive with that? Have all of Dean's speeches been a joke? Does FIRST even believe in the things they say? What is FIRST celebrating in St. Louis? The accomplishments of 400 FRC teams, or a celebrity rock star? Take a look at some excerpts from the link above:

-----------

Celebrating Celebrity

It's not what our country doesn't have enough of, supply, it's what we have too much of compared to the rest of the world. Our kids are constantly barraged by nonsense. They are constantly barraged by every kind of bigger-than-life role model who comes from one of two places--the NBA or Hollywood. It's the only culture in the world where kids by the time they are 5 or 6 years old, they all know who Britney Spears is, and Paris Hilton is, and Shaquille O'Neal is.

And then after spending eight hours a day, five days a week in school learning, you say to any kid on the street here, "Can you tell me the name of a single, living, famous, scientist, engineer or inventor?" And they can't. Well in the free culture, you get what you celebrate. If we don't celebrate these things, why are you going to get kids to put their time, their energy and their passion towards those things? So whether they're inner-city kids with no resources or yuppie kids with more than is reasonable, they'll all bounce a ball four hours a day because it's their way out. They're all going to be the next NBA star because it's cool.

...

I think if the country could prove somehow that some foreign government was able to so radically undermine the perspectives and goals of the kids in this country as to create the generation that we've now got moving up, we would hunt them down and kill them for treason. Instead, we've got Hollywood and the NBA unwinding this country. We're doing it to ourselves. But the bottom line first I think is invention. Create an opportunity for kids to get together with serious adults in a meaningful way where there's content but it's still as much fun and as exciting as a football game or a rock concert. That's the invention. The innovation occurs if the invention finds its way into the culture and changes what we do.

[JohnBoucher]

Originally Posted by Dave Flowerday

http://www.forbes.com/2009/08/27/dea...nnovation.html

I've had to listen to speeches like this one from Dean for close to 2 decades. How do the plans in St. Louis jive with that? Have all of Dean's speeches been a joke? Does FIRST even believe in the things they say? What is FIRST celebrating in St. Louis? The accomplishments of 400 FRC teams, or a celebrity rock star? Take a look at some excerpts from the link above:

Dave,
Thank you for posting the quotes and reminding the community about the message from FIRST in the past 20 years.

This is quite a year for FIRST. They have a game in that the rules have changed deep into the competition season. They have a side game (mini-bot) whose purpose was to support cooperation between FTC teams and FRC teams, but they give out awards to FRC teams that mass produce mini-bots. They toss the six week concept out the window for building the mini-bots. They are apparently still planning the agenda for champs while teams are arriving for it. Now they embrace the culture they have been battling for years with a media event they they want you to wear your team colors to because they are going to show the world what a great time you are having being involved in FIRST.

I don't mind change. I love that the challenge FIRST gives us every year is new and different. What I am troubled by is that the message has changed. FIRST used to be about changing the culture, one mind, one student at a time. We are now embracing celebrity for what purpose? To accelerate the "growth" of FIRST at the expense of the culture of FIRST?

I am not an engineer, my job on the team is to keep this program going year after year. I go out and try to sell the impact that this program has on students. I have to sell this program against sports and the popular culture. The FIRST program is different. It has a different purpose. It isn't superficial, it's results are long term and lasting.

I hope that FIRST is still on message.

[Dripto]

I'm in agreement with most of the people here that the concert as a concept is great, but the execution is at fault. However I feel that the fields being moved isn't as big of a worry as the timing. Moved fields, however inconvenient, aren't (hopefully) doing any actual damage. However the timing means the some teams will have to cancel previously made plans to go, or carry out their original plans at the cost of some unhappy students feeling denied of an opportunity. The scouting issue has already been covered, but I simply don't see any reason that FIRST could not have had this concert during the Wrap Party or some time on Saturday when they knew plans would not have been made.

[Conor Ryan]

I really don't get all the complaining over this. Change happens and First is trying to give everyone a better experience, emphasizing the celebration part of the championships.


Look back to when the championships were in Disney. Plenty of teams signed up for a robotics competition but got a theme park trip too. Back then the division set up was quite similar it was to what it is going to be in St. Louis.

When the championships moved to Atlanta teams felt like First was taking the fun away out of the championships (mostly because they couldn't see Mickey Mouse), a few people also felt that by taking the fields away from the pits the event had a completely different feel to it (it felt nothing like a regional to some). People have grown accustomed to that in the last few years in Atlanta, but now we are in a different venue with different people and First has the ability to shake things up, so why not? Bringing in entertainers is something that I would call "Thinking Outside of the Box" for First, its never been attempted before on the scale like this, so you need to give it a shot before you go ahead and complain.

Having some level of competition in the pits should bring out the regional feel a bit, and I think having a world class entertainer will be a little bit more entertaining than having somebody speak again. But remember, those nutty people in Manchester who run this show are watching too, if it doesn't work out too well, they'll learn their lesson, but if it does work, oh man we might have found a way to solve the lack of STEM education in the world.

Also: For all you people who are wondering why they can't have the performers perform on the field: many of their contracts stipulate they cannot perform unless they have a stage that meets certain specifications. FIRST fields do not currently meet that.

Some words of advice: Go into it with an open mind, you might be surprised.

[Boydean]

Originally Posted by Conor Ryan

Also: For all you people who are wondering why they can't have the performers perform on the field: many of their contracts stipulate they cannot perform unless they have a stage that meets certain specifications. FIRST fields do not currently meet that.

This cannot be more true. When you get up to the level of performer that the Black Eyed Peas are at then there are many contract stipulation that FIRST doesn't have any control over.

FIRST, I believe, had the unique opportunity to bring a world class performance (this can be an arguable on opinion, but lets just face facts here ok) for little or no cost on their part. Part of that I'm almost 100% sure that BEP had some very clear stipulations laid out before FIRST for this to happen – one of these might have been not disclosing the concert until 3 days before.

[Andrew Schreiber]

Originally Posted by Boydean

for little or no cost on their part.

[Citation Needed]. For all we know our registration fee is paying for this.

[rtfgnow]

Originally Posted by Joe G.

I've waited a while to post my thoughts on this topic, to allow things to calm down and give details more time to emerge.

Please, please, go into championships with an open mind. On the surface, I don't like the concept of displacing competition fields for a concert either. Then again, I've been doing FIRST for 10 years, and its message has sunk in with me enough that robotics is the only sport I follow closely.

In other words, I am not FIRST's audience anymore.

People come into this program all the time for things that, in our post-FIRST view, they maybe shouldn't. Free food at meetings. That cute guy who does it. The chance to miss school for trips. And so on. I've watched countless people do these things, only to see them grow and be inspired to do things they did not think they would the day they joined.

Adding another opportunity for this to happen can't hurt things.

I have not been terribly impressed with the planned execution, but the concert itself doesn't bother me, at all. And as far as execution, I shouldn't form opinions until after the fact.

I've been doing this for quite a while now. I've watched FIRST grow, and heard about its years before me. Over that time, I've disagreed with a number of decisions made by them, and more often than not, ended up eating my words. I've learned to withhold judgment until after the fact, which is what I urge everyone to do. I don't think that this is going to be just a concert, opposite in meaning to everything we do at championships. When in doubt, I trust FIRST's judgment. They've grown this program from 28 teams to over 2000, not to mention FLL and FTC. They've had time to plan this. From looking at what's been released, I don't think it will be fantastic.

But I don't think it will be the disaster a lot of people are predicting either.

FIRST has more experience than all of us at running these types of events. And they've stood for a constant mission for 20 years. I don't think that the concert is going to be an about-face on this. I look forward to seeing what FIRST has planned for us, and any publicity that results.

How many people can you sign up to go to St. Louis between when the announcement was made and when you leave?

[Joe G.]

Originally Posted by rtfgnow

How many people can you sign up to go to St. Louis between when the announcement was made and when you leave?

Remember kickoff, and will.i.am's appearance there? I thought it was pretty goofy. Most of us forum regulars probably thought the same.

However, I have a couple of first-year students who got excited about this. At the time of kickoff, they were "outlying members." Now, after a year of build season, they're pretty involved, and starting to "get it." I thank will.i.am. for drawing some initial excitement from them. Did I get excited about it? Not at all. But that doesn't mean no one did. And although I thought it was goofy, who am I to judge what ultimately draws someone into this program?

As I said, I haven't yet been impressed with the execution, and do wish this had been confirmed earlier (though its been pretty clear for quite a while now). But again, trust me, there will be people out there who get excited about it.

And filming for a possible TV show.

Hmm, in Michigan we had a FRC show about robotics. In St Louis, an FRC show will be about an entertainer.

Maybe, but i doubt it. For example...

Now that this is official (everyone has known for weeks)...the Hall of Fame teams have been asked to bring our robots to the concert to be displayed on stage.

Don't judge what you haven't seen yet.

[Koko Ed]

Considering CD is a public forum that anyone can read (I would not be surprised if Will.i.AM has read all the comments about him) I can't see FIRST attracting any artist for a show. So I can't see them doing this in the future whether it's a success or not.