paper: FRC cRIO II

[Mark McLeod]

Thread created automatically to discuss a document in CD-Media.

FRC cRIO II by Mark McLeod

[Mark McLeod]

Sorry, blew the original thread away by mis-clicking. I didn't think regular users had the power to do that, so I was only paying half attention.

I was able to recover the original posts from cache and I've recreated them here.
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07-16-2011 08:07 PM
iblis432

if it only has 1 ethernet port, what does this mean for teams who utilize the camera?


07-16-2011 09:38 PM
stevend1994

Originally Posted by iblis432
if it only has 1 ethernet port, what does this mean for teams who utilize the camera?

IIRC you can run a camera directly through the wireless bridge.


07-16-2011 09:38 PM
PAR_WIG1350

Originally Posted by iblis432
if it only has 1 ethernet port, what does this mean for teams who utilize the camera?

I would imagine one would access the camera through the D-Link's switch (it's just another device on the same network).


07-16-2011 09:49 PM
Tristan Lall

Originally Posted by iblis432
if it only has 1 ethernet port, what does this mean for teams who utilize the camera?

There's a good chance the radio supplied in the 2012 kit will be some sort of router with a switch built in. (Has the model been confirmed by FIRST or the controls developers?)

Looks like the new cRIO is an improvement all around, except (arguably) for one little thing. The new, much more convenient power specification means that someone is going to hook it up to 12 V unregulated, and then have it die on them during a match as their battery drains. (Expect this to be verified at inspection, but some cases always slip by.)

One solution might be a tiny little notice on the front of the cRIO with an arrow in the general direction of the power connector (they're already doing custom silkscreening for the FIRST logo, or a label): "Unless otherwise allowed by FRC rules, connect to 24 V regulated DC power at 4-pin connector on power distribution board (A003206)."

Similarly, the front of the power distribution board also has custom silkscreening. It wouldn't hurt to put arrows to the headers indicating "Robot Radio", "Robot Controller" and "Auxiliary (see FRC rules)" for the camera power. This is a constant issue at inspection, and would benefit a lot from some simple error-proofing.


07-16-2011 11:02 PM
apalrd

Wow. Those 0.63 pounds are really the best feature of the new cRio.



07-16-2011 11:55 PM
AdamHeard

I hope they choose digital sidecar for the fourth channel.... otherwise teams will be pretty unhappy when they try to use more than 10 unique motors.



07-17-2011 01:11 AM
Tristan Lall

Originally Posted by AdamHeard
I hope they choose digital sidecar for the fourth channel.... otherwise teams will be pretty unhappy when they try to use more than 10 unique motors.

I hope they can find a way to let teams select the desired modules (and order) when re-imaging it. (Even better would be to get it to detect and recognize modules on the fly, but that might be asking a bit much of the FPGA.)


07-17-2011 01:38 AM
AdamHeard

Originally Posted by Tristan Lall
I hope they can find a way to let teams select the desired modules (and order) when re-imaging it. (Even better would be to get it to detect and recognize modules on the fly, but that might be asking a bit much of the FPGA.)

Correct, that would be a better plan.


07-17-2011 08:18 AM
jtdowney

Originally Posted by Tristan Lall
There's a good chance the radio supplied in the 2012 kit will be some sort of router with a switch built in. (Has the model been confirmed by FIRST or the controls developers?).

This year we had a switch combined with a bridge/AP, which was a good mix of device (AP for practice, bridge for field). There is no real need for router functionality.

However I am hoping we don't see too much more of the current D-Link device given all the trouble this year, the long time to update in the WPA line, and ultimately longer times to connect to the field. I've heard rumors of FRC wanting to get the rights to the 2009 Linksys gaming adapters in order to arrange a FRC specific product.

Given the cRIO 2 has only one ethernet port, and the arrival of other ethernet devices like the 2CAN, it is clear we will probably continue to use a switch of some sort on board.


07-17-2011 09:15 AM
Gdeaver

A USB Host port would have been nice. Some of the things we are playing with for next year would be easier with USB support.



07-17-2011 11:41 AM
Jared341

Operation down to 9V is actually a huge feature of the cRIO2, IMO. Various teams ran into cRIO resets caused by momentary low supply voltages at some point or another in 2011 due to a combination of heavy current draw and, in some cases, RS775 motor case shorts. Operating all the way down to 9V will help a great deal in these cases.



07-18-2011 11:37 AM
Tom Line

The loss of the no-app dip switch is troublesome. FRC Labview has well documented issues downloading files when the Crio is already running something. It's common to have to try several times to get it download correctly (lost connection etc).

A common fix to this was to flip the No-App dip switch so you could boot without the crio running the files.

Having to open the imaging tool to access virtual dip switches while having connectivity problems with the Crio is not a good solution at all.

I have a hate/hate relationship with the tiny recessed reset switches, so trying to add the no-app boot solution to the reset button on the Crio is a bit of a non-starter as well: recessed reset buttons like that get destroyed very quickly by over-zealous folks with sharp things.


07-18-2011 01:00 PM
apalrd

Originally Posted by Tom Line
The loss of the no-app dip switch is troublesome. FRC Labview has well documented issues downloading files when the Crio is already running something. It's common to have to try several times to get it download correctly (lost connection etc).

A common fix to this was to flip the No-App dip switch so you could boot without the crio running the files.

Having to open the imaging tool to access virtual dip switches while having connectivity problems with the Crio is not a good solution at all.

I have a hate/hate relationship with the tiny recessed reset switches, so trying to add the no-app boot solution to the reset button on the Crio is a bit of a non-starter as well: recessed reset buttons like that get destroyed very quickly by over-zealous folks with sharp things.

I would be happy if they just fixed the root cause of the problem instead of working around it with the no-app switch, something they should have done back when the problem was first found.


07-19-2011 02:41 PM
purpleandplasma

Do you know when we can buy the cRIO II, and if there is a limit to how many you can buy?


07-19-2011 03:11 PM
Mark McLeod

This upcoming 2012 season, as a special introductory offer, teams will be able to purchase (either/or/both)

• (1) cRIO FRC II chassis for ~$300
• (1) cRIO FRC II chassis with 3 modules for ~$550

I speculate that it's possible NI will allow additional purchases over and above at a more expensive educational price, but no one has said anything about that or what that increased price might be.

No definitive date has been announced for the FRC II release, just "this winter." (originally was "this Fall", but Bill probably thought it through...)
Bill's Blog has also said they are still working on developing the 2012 control system and plans for Fall Beta Test teams to try it out.

We need more than simply the purchase of the cRIO FRC II hardware.
We will need a workable FRC image and the updated cRIO Imaging Tool that handles it before it's of much use to us.

I imagine that the hardware, tools and image will first have a limited release to the Beta Teams, before a general release to the rest of the FRC public.

Imaginary Timeline:

1. Beta Team applications
2. Beta Team selection
3. Distribution of beta hardware/software
4. Period of Beta testing errors/results/rework and retesting.
5. Release to the general public

At a guess I wouldn't depend on the average team being able to use a new cRIO FRC II any earlier than December...


07-20-2011 10:12 AM
Mark McLeod

How about a chart like this one to demonstrate the network connections to the new (and old) cRIO?



09-04-2011 11:04 AM
rjbarra

It looks like the Camera is going to be on the same TCP/IP network. Maybe this years game we will have the opportunity to use a live Video feed.



09-04-2011 12:08 PM
jtdowney

Quote:
Originally Posted by rjbarra
It looks like the Camera is going to be on the same TCP/IP network. Maybe this years game we will have the opportunity to use a live Video feed.

With the D-Link bridge/switch you were able to have the camera on the 10.0.0.0/8 subnet this past year.


09-19-2011 01:03 PM
FrankJ

Go here to for directions on how to configure the camera to run on the same subnet as your robot. This will allow you to plug the camera into the robots router.

[Mark McLeod]

I got an estimated delivery date of November 23 when I ordered ours just now.

[dcarr]

Originally Posted by Mark McLeod

I got an estimated delivery date of November 23 when I ordered ours just now.

Where can the new cRIO be ordered? I haven't been able to find it.

A post thread within a thread? Threadception!

[Mark McLeod]

Originally Posted by Friarbots

Where can the new cRIO be ordered? I haven't been able to find it.

Call (866) 511-6285 from 1 p.m. to 7 p.m. Central Time to:

• Purchase extra cRIOs for your team

It's posted in the middle of this NI page although the wording is a week or two out of date.
Your team's Main/Alternate TIMS Contact will have to order it. They know who he or she is.

[dcarr]

Originally Posted by Mark McLeod

Call (866) 511-6285 from 1 p.m. to 7 p.m. Central Time to:

• Purchase extra cRIOs for your team

It's posted in the middle of this NI page although the wording is a week or two out of date.
Your team's Main/Alternate TIMS Contact will have to order it. They know who he or she is.

Thanks, I'll call tomorrow. Was the price $300 as indicated?

[Mark McLeod]

• $525 for (1) cRIO FRC II + (3) I/O modules (PN 780405-02)
• $285 for (1) cRIO FRC II chassis alone (PN 780406-02)

Plus shipping ($24 for TX to NY)
Plus Tax

Country of origin: Hungary
Extended Warranty: Ireland

You can order one of each (so you can get two cRIOs if you want), but I think they may have to be ordered at the same time, not one now and another a month from now when you change your mind.

Even if you order only one, ask the agent about that and let people know what the deal is here. I forget to confirm if they had to be ordered at the same time.

[Alan Anderson]

Bill's Blog of August 23, 2011 gives all the information necessary for a veteran team wanting to use their 2012 cRIO discount.

http://frcdirector.blogspot.com/2011...-tomorrow.html

Originally Posted by Mark McLeod

Extended Warranty: Ireland

There was apparently some confusion in the NI sales office about the warranty. Some orders were automatically having a few hundred dollars' worth of extended warranty added. We called back to check on that, and they had already corrected the order to remove the additional charges.

[Mark McLeod]

Our new toys arrived a bit earlier than expected.

[thefro526]

Mark, I'm guessing those were purchased through Ni/FIRST? Or are they beta test models...

We should really place our order.

[Jim Wilks]

Mine arrived as well today. Not a Beta test purchase, just a regular team purchase.

[Mark McLeod]

Ours were purchases as well.

They appear to have conformal coatings, but do not come with protective gaskets.

[austin1743]

I am looking for specs on them, sizes? of the CRIO,

if someone could link me to a file that explains how the CRIO works overall that would be awesome...


Thanks

Any problems so far? Has anyone used it yet? Are there any noticeable advantages/disadvantages? If so, what?

Thanks!