Ring It Up! and Rack n' Roll

[Alan Anderson]

Originally Posted by Rule 1.3.4

In order to earn the Lifting Bonus, the lifted Robot must be fully supported by the Alliance partner’s Robot and not by any other game object.

Originally Posted by MarcSol

...that rule only talks about the final position of the 'lifted' robot and not how the robot became 'lifted'.

That rule defines the conditions for receiving the Lifting Bonus. It does not specify method, and neither do any other rules I saw. It doesn't even say that the partner's Robot must actually "lift" the lifted Robot; it says only that it must fully (and exclusively) support it.

If you still don't believe that a passive ramp applies, you're apparently assuming something that isn't in the rules. That box you think you see is only an illusion.

[GBK]

I think the reason this came up is the actual use of the work lifted vs elevated. Lifted implies a result of being lifted (verb) and elevated is typically translated as a position of something relative to other objects.
I am not saying that a ramp is not legal, but if you drive up on a ramp, to the top of a bot, you were not lifted there, even though you are now elevated above the playing surface.
Makes me wonder why the GDC chose the wording they did.

[MarcSol]

Originally Posted by Alan Anderson

That rule defines the conditions for receiving the Lifting Bonus. It does not specify method, and neither do any other rules I saw. It doesn't even say that the partner's Robot must actually "lift" the lifted Robot; it says only that it must fully (and exclusively) support it.

Alan, the same paragraph also states (those are paragraph numbers not rule numbers. Rule numbers have a different format):

Originally Posted by Paragraph 1.3.4

During the End Game (and not before), Robots may lift their Alliance partner’s Robot above the Playing Field floor to receive Lifting Bonus points.

Years of refereeing FIRST competitions have taught me to read every word carefully. If there is a way to misinterpret the words, they will be misinterpreted. The Manual specifically states that one Robot may lift another Robot to receive the Lifting Bonus, not that one Robot may allow another Robot to crawl up on it till the second Robot has elevated itself above the floor. This is Ring It Up! not Rack 'n Roll.

[Taylor]

No matter what, a rules interpretation found on Chief Delphi is not binding. I'd suggest asking the official Q&A when it becomes available for a true ruling.
While I agree with the interpretation given by Alan and others, I do understand Marc's concerns - so a request for an official rules/terminology interpretation by the FTC GDC would be appropriate.

I agree that this game is more a reimagining of Triple Play - just twisted 90*.

[MarcSol]

Taylor, I realize that rules interpretation on Chief Delphi is not binding, but in my conversations with Head Refs over the years I have heard many times that the views and concerns expressed on Chief Delphi do influence both the rulings of the GDCs as well as how Head Referees interpret the rules. Many rulings I have been told about started as questions and conversations here.

I actually hope Alan and the others are correct; I just question how they achieved their interpretations. Developing a ramp sounds much more feasible given the size of the FTC Robots than developing a lift mechanism.

[Alan Anderson]

Originally Posted by MarcSol

I actually hope Alan and the others are correct; I just question how they achieved their interpretations.

My interpretation is easily explained. The scoring for a Lifted Robot is based on height above the floor tiles, on support, and on timing. The rules do not care how the Lifted Robot got where it is, as long as no field structure was used to help get it there and as long as it didn't start to get there before the End Game began.

The answer to your original question about how "lifting" is defined: It isn't. I don't believe that is an accidental omission.

[feverittm]

Question from a FRC person. What are you FTC people thinking to tell the difference in weight of the rings?

I understand if people want to keep this a secret, but I am curious. I have my own ideas

Thanks

[Nemo]

Originally Posted by feverittm

Question from a FRC person. What are you FTC people thinking to tell the difference in weight of the rings?

I understand if people want to keep this a secret, but I am curious. I have my own ideas

Thanks

HiTechnic came out with a force sensor on the day of the game release. We'll probably buy one of those and play with it as a start.